[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>CS11 courses in UP Diliman will now start with Java and will be encouraged >to use Linux instead of WinXP or Win2K. CS12, however, will be in Java and >C. Why C? Well, using Java exclusively removes the experiences of debugging >pointers and our CS32 (data structures) requires that the student knows how >to implement lists, stack, etc. using pointers. Question (I've already finished CS32, anyway): it bothers me, but why use pointers and C in CS32 ? I know it's the most efficient way hardware-wise, but would an OOPL be more adept for such? Java gives a good opportunity to remove one's self from bothering about the constraints of hardware and instead concentrate on building the data structure, but with the trade-off of not being so hardware efficient. C++ is somehow hardware efficient (as it is a superset of C) and strives to avoid too much pointer manipulation but unfortunately has a not-so-mature ABI. C is procedural as opposed to OOP, and each use of a similar ADT would require another replication of the ADT, as opposed to making instantiations of an ADT object using constructors, Forgive me for sounding so paradoxical as I'm also minding that each school of solution has its own tradeoff, but I've not been so sold off as to why C as opposed to an OOPL that either eliminates the hardware constraints or does not, (can't forget that I did also the MP's in CS32 using C and C++ as well...). Or maybe it's because it's the most mature of all the languages presented? >As I have stated, the current crop of students in UP Diliman CS including >those who graduated last year have not had the luxury of being exposed to >Linux. Now that I am back, they will be FORCED to learn it. hehe... >resistance is futile! Sounds too much like the Borg Queen of Star Trek... fortunately Microsoft is the epitome of the dark side of the force... It's already a problem when one is so weaned to the evil empire's machinations that the mind is already locked to Microsoft platform solutions and won't open up. It's a condition similar to the slaves in Plato's "Allegory of the Cave." it's indeed good to know that the incoming UPD CS students would be introduced to Linux right from the beginning (kinda makes me envious for I only got to learn linux quite right when Jijo lent me some CD's of his "fucked up distro" version 5.2 some two years ago). >Python, although free, is not an efficient programming language to teach to >our students. We do not see the need for them to learn it. The base >languages are Java, C, C++, Prolog and Lisp. Although this does not mean >that the teachers will not teach other languages - Programming Language >course *might* teach Python. Maybe I won't say that Python is not an efficient language (to appease the Python users and at the same time not promoting a flamefest). Python has a clean design (though it doesn't go as hardware efficient such as C++ or moreso C). It's a good total beginner's language that can help one abstract ideas into objects in code without getting too tight and a bit hard to learn like Java. Python may not be as efficient hardware-wise as compared to C or C++, but it can also be used as productively like Java. I'm just beginning to learn Python scripting for some basic tasks, but I kinda like its feel already - should've learned this language a long time ago, when I was still a total beginner in programming before I tackled with C and C++. >As for databases such as MySQL, PostgreSQL, etc. UP Diliman CS is different >when it comes to these products. We do not teach students on HOW to use >these applications but rather HOW to develop applications like these. Our >Database Design course teaches students the underlying technologies behind >database systems. The students are free to use any of these DBMS - including >MS SQLServer because we do have a license for it (sayang naman!). UP Dil students are very lucky indeed. I was one of the unlucky who had to endure forcible assimilation to a particular DBMS last year in UP Manila. As in hanggang syntax together with VB. Unfortunately, I didn't learn too much from my database class (having passed it just to pass it, now I need to relearn how to use databases from scratch like a total newbie in that field with PostgreSQL). Off-topic: I've heard that MySQL is not a "real" DBMS compared with PostgreSQL. Before I delve back to the Net and find it out, any opinion why so? or why not? (please redirect flames to /dev/null) >AS for other open source applications, UPD CS students are now encouraged to >check open source projects. Most, if not all, the applications that they are >developing for their senior year projects are open source. Out of the 27 that are taking their SP in UP Manila, only a mere few are designing purely with open source software. One is designing a prototype university registration system using Zope, Python and Java on NetBSD, while others are coping with Apache-PHP-MySQL but on a Windows platform. I myself am not using any open source tool nor a free OS for my SP (but my SP is related to Linux filesystems, and I need to use GPL'd code, but in WINDOWS - I feel so heretical that I'm part of the many that doesn't... and I advocate for free and open source software along with Jijo amongst our classmates...) >The CRS is being revamped. I have communicated with Eric regarding the plans >of Diliman for this - me being a member of two committees in charge of this >project - CRS 2, headed by Prof. Putong, will start development next year >employing the tools that are open sourced. Watch out soon - you will no >longer see .asp pages but rather .jsp. :-b java server pages? Nothing against java, but python can do also such (I was really impressed by Butch's presentation on Zope and Python last Linux10, and when I viewed the pages that employ Squishdot) that it looks like and feels like java but it isn't java. Well, as long as they aren't Microsoft's, it's beginning to sound fine for UP! Kudos and good luck. Sana mapalaya na ang Pamantasan ng Pilipinas mula sa Microsoft. At sana buong Pilipinas na rin... --Paolo __________________________________ www.edsamail.com _ Philippine Linux Users Group. Web site and archives at http://plug.linux.org.ph To leave: send "unsubscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe to the Linux Newbies' List: send "subscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
