----------------------------------------- Original Message: From: fooler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
not insufficient in terms of teaching but insufficient to introduce new tools that required costs as what the market demands mostly.... == my reply = You see - in UPD CS - we teach students the basics and the theories behind everything computer science. We rarely teach our students how-to's regarding software development tools. What they are taught is HOW TO CREATE those tools, among others. == >I wonder how the pre-Microsoft CS graduates will > react to this. > You are implying that if one uses Unix/Linux, one does > not get quality education because they are free? no im not implying of that.. im implying to learn more OSes aside from one OS only... you will gain more understanding of their strategy and their artform for every OS... again it will require another cost for this... == my reply == Curious - Apple Mac OS X is based on BSD - learn BSD, which is open and free, and you learn another OS. BSD, btw, if you are not that familiar, is UNIX, the same way that Linux is. What is there to learn in any of the Windows OS anyway? Nothing original there, afaik. Anyway, UPD CS teaches the basic components of an OS using an OS that students can examine thoroughly, i.e. with source available. Heck! Can you tell me how students can learn how Windows XP REALLY does its memory management? file management? process management? Can they experiment on it? I doubt it. === > If we use Java (it is > free as well), our students do not get quality education? java is not the only software to obtained quality of education... == my reply = ARGH! A programming language does not give you quality education! Shesh! I was merely stating the flaw of your argument in your previous email. === > If we use > GNU C/C++ instead of VC/C++, we provide poor education? not really but you will give them extra good education if you let them know the difference of C for different environment... again it will require additional cost for this... == my reply = C is always C no matter how you look at it. Students in UP learn C as their first programming language primarily to allow them to think scientifically - for them to know how to solve a particular problem using, at least, one programming language. As much as possible, we teach students programming WITHOUT the aide of any IDEs - only your good ole text editor (vi), the compiler and if needed, the debugger. Nothing fancy. From then on, students DECIDE for themselves what IDE or RAD tool to use since we know that they have the ability to evaluate it themselves. We NEVER teach them those IDEs. BTW, UP's C programming classes are based on ANSI C - the standard C and not any bastardized implementation of it. Since it is a standard, should be the same in any platform. === > Because > we do not teach Visual Basic/.Net or C#, our quality is not up to par > with those who are teaching it? it is more advantageous for the students that they know these tools aside from other free tools.. of course it will require cost for this again.. == my reply = Yes, it is an added advantage for the students BUT as I have said, we NEVER teach them how to use tools. It is up to them to learn it. === > If we use PostgreSQL or mySQL instead > of Oracle, we are not preparing our students adequately? oracle is a no non-sense relational database manage system... they will learn a lot of features if you could introduce this to them aside from postgresql and mysql... again... another cost for this.... == my reply = Yes, again, I agree about the advantage. We do have Oracle and we teach them the theory behind it along with PostgreSQL and others. HOWEVER, we do not teach them how to USE it per se - as in developing an application using it. It is up to them. We teach the students how to design a database system - how it works and students evaluate Oracle and other dbms. === > Oh well... I guess > people should NOT enrol in UP because the tuition is low - you will get > POOR QUALITY. you can still have low tuition fee without compromising quality of education... if there are grants, donations or whatever to subsidize your needs for these tools from other sectors... == my reply = Easier said than done. Again, you cannot judge the quality of education that a university provides by the amount of tuition that it charges. Believe me, there are LOTS of private universities there providing sub-par quality. == > Anyway, I agree with you that education is not cheap. However, you have > to live within your means. If you were to gauge one's education by the > cost of tuition that one pays, then I guess you are off here a bit. UP > cannot afford to pay for all the licenses that Microsoft imposes for each > copy of their OS and their tools - to be able to create software exclusively > for their environment. let the government do their job to find money for this... increase tax if necessary just to provide you more tools... == my reply = What? Increase taxes just to be able to provide tools for our students that DO NOT GUARANTEE that they will use it primarily because it is actually being TAUGHT in the university. Perhaps you can help us by being the first person to pay MORE taxes to the government and then tell BIR to please allocate more funds to UP so that tools can be bought for its students. What do you say? How about 80% of your salary? If you're still a student about 80% of your family income... === > We teach students Ethics and Social Responsibility - > to use tools and platforms that they can afford (and the university can afford > as well). We DO NOT encourage them to PIRATE software primarily because > they cannot afford it. im not against introducing free OS and tools to the academe but it is much better to introduce more OSes and tools in order for them to have a wider knowledge about it... but it will require cost for this.. that is why education is not cheap... == my reply = I guess you really do not know what a UP education is. You think that higher tuition means better quality of education. Believe me, there are professors in UP who are earning peanuts compared to their counterparts from private universities but they have remained to teach students. Anyway, your argument does not hold much with respect to UP. Perhaps with respect to other private universities who do not conform to ACM CS Curriculum standards. I suggest that you check our the ACM CS Curriculum 2001 recommendations and you will find out WHAT ARE supposed to be taught in these courses. --o000o-- Prof. Rommel Palma Feria, MSc Director, University Computer Center University of the Philippines - Diliman Quezon City 1101 Philippines Voice: +63 2 9268837 Fax: +63 2 9204803 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using DeskNow Lite - Free mail & collaboration server http://www.desknow.com _ Philippine Linux Users Group. Web site and archives at http://plug.linux.org.ph To leave: send "unsubscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fully Searchable Archives With Friendly Web Interface at http://marc.free.net.ph To subscribe to the Linux Newbies' List: send "subscribe" in the body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
