On 6/4/20 9:48 PM, Denis Heidtmann wrote:
This convinces me I am dense.
Lost the will to discuss the issue when someone pulled a murder from
2006 out of thin air. I don't know what I said to prompt that but I can
come up with theories why it resurfaced.
Since your sarcasm is so inviting I'll explain my frustration, you asked
for it ;)
All I want is for people to stop pushing the idea that slackware is the
cause of a given software glitch. It's the only reason I bother offering
to help Rich. After a couple years of lurking here I kinda snapped when
I saw someone give slackware a try and the floodgates of stupidity
opened. It seemed like nobody was interested in the facts and just
wanted promote whatever random opinion popped into their head at the
given moment. It was actually really bad and I felt a responsibility to
set the record straight.
It felt like sabotage. A bunch of people who had never used slackware
kept offering advice, and then giving that disclaimer that they'd never
used it. For someone who was actively trying to learn, this created
severe problems in separating fact from fiction. He was clearly unable
to decide who's advice was real, and who's was not. That's not his
fault, but the fault of the people who actively worked to get in the way.
As for Rich's questions, pretty much all of them are the result of
either his inexperience or custom configuration (very custom). He gets
fancy with his setup and it upsets me to see conversations head in the
direction of "well maybe slackware..." when its something like rebooting
a computer after 100 days of uptime.
Any venerable user knows these questions are not slackware specific. But
my concern is more about spreading knowledge to new users. When I leave
the PLUG list and go do other things, I run into other linux users who
say the dumbest things. Factoids and anecdotes that have nothing to do
with what slackware actually is. People tell me about a flaw they heard
about and I'm sitting there thinking about how that's literally not
possible. The laws of physics kind of get in the way, know what I mean?
People who know the truth are complacent, assuming that the facts speak
for themselves. But they don't, and newer users are given unrealistic
expectations and spread those like wildfire. I don't get the impression
that people want to fight the fire because they just sit there watching
it burn. This idea of spreading misinformation has become such a
standard of life in the US that I start thinking that nobody here even
cares about facts or truth. You just shout your opinions like its a damn
twitter feed. If I thought anyone here cared about the design of the
software and why it functions the way that it does, I would have offered
to give a presentation on Slackware basics. It's not like there's some
magical difference, we have binary compatibility with both centos and
debian...
At Free Geek I taught a class called "Linux Playground" where I walked
brand new linux users through the basic differences of the various
distributions. They would then go and get an ubuntu computer, but they
left the class with an understanding of why free geek used Ubuntu, and
what kind of options were out there if they chose to try something else.
I firmly believe that we all have a moral obligation to promote the
truth. This doesn't mean I think you should learn slackware, this means
that you should acknowledge where your experience starts, and ends.
Don't bother making a slackware specific statement if you have no
experience with it.
If you check the history of emails you'll not only notice that I've been
critical of ubuntu, but that I've also offered pointed advice. This is
because many of the issues that float through this mailing list are the
same issues I solved at free geek. I literally maintained the book of
"known issues and solutions" for several years. There are a lot of
recurring problems, with easy solutions.
When someone claims that I'm just bashing Ubuntu because I think I'm a
"linux GOD", I find it hurtful. I feel excluded when I offer years of
experience for free, and it gets tossed to the wind by people who think
that it's the responsibility of the user to decide what is and is not
correct. They are asking for help because they don't know what the
correct path is, so when you throw out lots of information in a short
period of time, people get confused.
But you tried to do the right thing, and that's clearly all that matters.
-Ben
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 9:18 PM Ben Koenig <[email protected]> wrote:
On 6/4/20 9:00 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote:
On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
Rich Shepard <[email protected]> dijo:
I believe that Ben referred to Resser (sp?). The file system developer
who was a bit bonkers. I don't recall the whole story but it was
really big news for a while.
It was Reiser. He was arrested for murdering his wife. Thereafter, his
filesystem fell out of favor.
Not sure where reiserFS factors into anything, that happened in 2006...
why are we talking about it???
I vented several issues both old and new in that post. This is not a
topic I want to discuss via email. I've lost faith in the idea that
people can communicate effectively. text-only email only makes the
problem worse.
The Linux community is becoming more inclusive by excluding certain
types of people. It just happened right in front of everyone on this list.
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