On Jul 21, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Schroeder wrote:
Kimball wrote:
15ish% = raw income tax
15ish% more = Other federal things: Social security, FICA, etc, etc,
Now, if you set up an S-Corp, the "Other federal things" category
goes away - ie, you pay about 15% less in taxes.
I'm not sure who your accountant is, but this information is incorrect
(or else I completely misunderstand you).
You can't escape the income tax, it's true... you pay that on your
1040
at the end of the year for all the money you've earned-- both at your
"regular" job and any side jobs you have. But an S corporation
definitely pays SSA, FICA, unemployment insurance, filing fees, and so
on. If you pay yourself via the corporation and take out payroll
taxes, for every dollar of Social Security tax you report on your
1040,
your company is paying a matching dollar. 6.2% of your income goes to
the SSA from your paycheck, and another 6.2% comes from your company.
Thus, I don't understand how you can say the "other federal things" go
away with an S corporation. Perhaps you're referring to paying
EVERYTHING as dividends, rather than payroll? That's certainly
possible, but leads to two issues:
Sort of - accountant calls it an "Owner Draw", not salary, not a
dividend. In my situation, it works ok, as my corp is not making
anywhere near what Hans will be pulling in here, and I am able to
expense a large portion of the corp income (without running into the
moral complications you mention below)
1) Since dividends are taxed differently (e.g., no SSA), the IRS keeps
an eye on companies that pay large dividends but small salaries. In
other words, if you've earned $30k and pay $25k in dividends,
that's an
immediate "red flag" because the remaining $5k "salary" is clearly
unreasonable for the work you're doing. Hello, Mr. Auditor!
2) Any dividends you receive will be taxed on your 1040 as part of
your
AGI, and will also be reported by the corporation on form K-1 as
profits. As a shareholder of the corporation, you will be taxed on
those profits.
Now, since you are going to be running this corp from your home, you
can expense a portion of your dwelling as office space, and "rent"
it to yourself from the corp.
Yes, but once you designate a part of your house for business use,
a lot
of interesting things happen. You *must* use that area exclusively
for
business 80% of the time (or something like that), you have to
calculate crazy things like percentages of utility bills (how much
electricity does your office use compared to the rest of the house?),
and IIRC it creates some weird situations when you sell your house.
My advice-- backed up by the advice of several realtors and my
accountant-- is that writing off business use of your house isn't
generally worth the hassle. YMMV.
True, but I wanted Hans to know it is possible.
Further, any other expenses you can
dream up for your corp will avoid the 15% of raw income tax, and you
get all that money to be used tax free.
That's true. The general rule is to expense everything you can, of
course with an eye toward being honest. I've known people who write
off their vacations because when they were in Aruba they happened to
mention to some guy at the bar that they run a software company or
something. "Hey, that's a business conversation, so I can write off
the whole trip!" Let your conscience be your guide, remembering that
if you're ever audited you're going to have to justify that expense or
face back payments and some nasty interest.
I'm not an accountant, nor a lawyer-- I'm just a Linux geek who owns
several S corporations. So don't take my words here as gospel, but be
aware that the tax laws are FAR more complicated than they might seem
at first. Also, I'm not slamming Kimball's statements, because I
might
be misinterpreting what he said, but before you trust a bunch of Linux
geeks I'd go to an accountant and get the real story. :) In my
experience, accountants are willing to give you a free one-hour (or
so)
"consultation" where you can ask this kind of stuff, in hopes that
they
get your business in the future. It would be worth asking.
I totally agree with Jeff here. I am also just a skinny little
programmer - no accountant. I can barely add. I've just related in
broad strokes what works for my situation in the hopes that someone
out there will find is useful.
Please consult with a professional accountant before doing anything
with any real money.
-- Kimball
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