On Jan 24, 2008 11:04 AM, Hill, Greg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The point is, if China came and put a military base in Mexico or Canada, > and started bombing us from it, and continued doing so for a decade, > then made up intelligence to support invading us, killing millions of > our civilians in the process, we'd be fighting back, too. Paul is of > the opinion that we shouldn't be over there, militarily, unless we're > prepared to deal with the consequences of doing so (i.e. 9/11, and all > the other terrorist attacks). He thinks our troops would do better to > be, you know, protecting our own country instead of being used as > leverage to make every other country on the planet do our bidding. > > Greg
Wait, wait, wait. I wanted to respond with this: Right. I am agreeing with you and Von. I just think there are more powerful, rational, and logical reasons for agreeing with that position than saying "the other kids don't like us". However, I have to correct your grossly exaggerated parity. A) We didn't make up the intelligence that we had about Saddam Hussein. We knew he had WMDs because WE SOLD 'EM TO HIM in the '80s. French, UK, and German intelligence all AGREED with our intelligence. We all had believable intel on the WMDs because Saddam wanted the rest of the world generally and enemies in the middle east particularly to BELIEVE that he did have WMDs. B) 9/11 proceeded our invasion. We didn't cause 9/11 (or other terrorist attacks). We try to prevent and respond to them. Our attacks against Afghanistan were COMPLETELY warranted. Iraq wasn't. C) The UN made something like 21 resolutions (a.k.a. threatening letters) for Iraq to allow UN weapon's inspectors to come in and verify that Saddam didn't have WMDs. Saddam continued to not allow inspectors in even after the UN had sent SEVERAL resolutions promising to use FORCE against Iraq if he didn't comply. Of course the UN is a spineless, corrupt, joke so they didn't follow through on their promises, even after fixed dates blew past. So.... Congress declared war and America, the UK, and a handful of other countries, kicked down the door and spanked Saddam. A little rash -- we should have waited to firm up our intel. WAY too expensive of an operation (despite the right or wrong of it). And, yes, it didn't help our image with countries that were illegally selling minor weapons and other goods to Iraq in the Oil for Food scandal (hello France, Germany, and Russia), who didn't want the status quo rocked. America merely did what the UN promised they were going to do... And yet we're the bad guys. Screw the UN. D) This has been the most successful military operation of this size EVER. There's never been fewer soldiers killed, nor fewer civilians killed in any war of this size in the past. We haven't killed millions of civilians -- rather Saddam killed millions of his own civilians. We're not monsters, etc., etc. Also note that more military personal died per year during Clinton peace time (due to accidents, etc.) than Bush war time. http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/F8B1ABCC-B33A-4B02-8F57-2C056504A71F/ http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/10/us-lost-more-soldiers-annually-under.html This doesn't make the war any less wrong. But some of the points used by those who appose the war makes them look stupid. E) I don't think we should have gone into Iraq so hastily. However, we're there now, and I think pulling out the troupes abruptly would be a disaster. I agree with Ron Paul that we should pull out ALL of our troupes from around the world (not just Iraq). But this would have to be done very gradually. I love the military, but I hate government intervention and by that principle, we shouldn't be out policing the world. Also, we're broke as a nation, and we can't afford to do so. So, we agree on the general direction we should have taken. But I disagree with your analogy about China and Mexico. Iraq is nothing like that. It was a bad case of government intervention and jumping the shark. It is an expensive and unnecessary war. We can't afford to liberate every sand pit country. We need to fix our own issues. Uphold our own laws and worry about ourselves. That doesn't mean we don't want to help others. And it doesn't mean we aren't entitled to self-defense (the war against Afghanistan was totally warranted). But we need to clean our own house first. -Bryan /* PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug Don't fear the penguin. */
