On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 7:40 AM, Stuart Jansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > lot of Americans are making disgusting, self-indulgent decisions.
According to you -- it's a bit of a subjective metric. You see disgusting self-indulgence, I see deserved prosperity. People like to spend their money on big gaudy houses. Others want to assemble a home-made beowulf cluster from premium hardware. Others may want to travel a lot. Others may want to donate more to charity. So what? People earn their money (except for millions of individuals and many corporations on welfare), let them spend it however they wish. > I think it's disgusting that in so many families in Utah, when Junior > graduates from high school he gets a Mustang as a gift instead of > working for it. Apparently no one cared enough to disagree with me. On I guess I missed that post. I would have agreed that getting a new car for graduation is a joke. Way to warp your child's sense of value, work ethic, and any kind of postponed-gratification. Yet our government leads the charge in giving undeserving persons hand-outs (aka buying votes (with YOUR money)). Why should we judge these parents more harshly? The parents in your example unwisely gave their child an expensive car. The government would gladly give that same child a lifetime of no work, a full scholarship to graduate school (if they are a convicted felon in a state prison), etc. At least these parents are wasting their own money on their spoiled child instead of YOUR money. > the topic of housing, however, there was a strong counter argument: "The > market has swung too far, even those who don't want them are being > forced to buy too large homes on too small land." I differ with your wording. No one is being *forced* to do anything. Only the government can *force* you to do something. They are the only ones who ultimately have the power to legally stuff a gun in your face and coerce you to do something. People can build any kind of house they want anywhere they want if they are willing to pay the price the market demands. You are completely free to build/buy any home you wish. > Why? Wouldn't the market correct itself? As someone pointed out, Who says the market is asking for a correction? If it is, I would truly suggest going into business as a developer who creates more appealing developments for customers to buy... Are you a little nervous about going into such a venture? Why? Because there is no market for it (right now). There is no need to "correct" the market in the way your wanting it to be "corrected". P.S. - Maybe there is, I don't know. If there is a huge unfulfilled segment of home buyers who are just waiting to pay twice as much for a smaller home on a huge lot, let me know. I'm just stating that markets work. If there really was a demand for things to be different, there would be developers/builders out there working day and night to earn that business. > developers make more money by building more home on less land. As > someone who wants less home on more land, I have to admit there is some > truth to this argument. Maybe down in Spanish Fork decent homes are > still being built, but I live in Davis county and up here most new homes > are the type I dislike. I have other options. For now, I'm still > renting. Eventually, perhaps, I'll move into a home 30 miles from work. > Neither is a great option. Or maybe I'll get lucky and find a home that > was built back when people had more sense, but there aren't many > families in those homes now in hurry to sell. Sounds like you're in luck. You have many options. It all depends on how much you're willing to sacrifice to get what you want. You may decide that renting works perfectly for you for quite some time. Of you may consider a longer commute to be okay considering that you could get what you want home/property-wise for a better price. Or you may pay a higher price for an existing home you like that goes up for sale. Or you may pay a small fortune for a large lot in Davis county and build your own dream home on it. It is all in your hands. You can do anything you want. It just depends on how much you're willing to pay (in current funds and debt) compared to what you would get in return. > There's a limit to how often one can run back to the argument that > "People do X so they must want X." Sometimes "People do X because they > didn't have many other options." I absolutely agree. But I would say that people do X because YOU haven't provided Y. There are literally millions of needs that could be better fulfilled by your yet-to-be-invented product/idea/whatever. Stuart, you should seriously consider going into business for yourself and solve some of these problems you notice in society. People would be better off for your goods/services and you would be financially able to buy-out Davis county completely, demolish it, and erect a one-room brick outhouse. > So yes, Americans in general are at fault. But so are developers. And > city councils. When you get down to it, developers are doing nothing > wrong. They're maximizing profit. Saying they're greedy isn't an insult, > it's a statement of fact our economic system is built around. The role > of the market is to moderate that greed. And when the market fails, the > role of government is step in for the good of society. Obviously some > people feel the system is currently malfunctioning and aren't happy > about waiting for a market correction. Markets always work except in the case of monopoly, cartel, or government interventionism (government being the ultimate monopoly -- the largest anti-competitive "corporation" of them all). -Bryan /* PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug Don't fear the penguin. */
