I also agree. A liar is someone who makes a false statement with deliberate intent to deceive, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case with Alpheus.
Also, a little bit of civility on Stuarts part would do wonders. This isn't the Spanish Inquisition. :) Tod Hansmann wrote: > I think I'm with Alpheus on the definition of a liar (especially in > regards to parroting reports about regulations). I'm also with the > others in saying he needs to get away from juno.com and into the new > millenia, or at least the 90's, where juno.com was still scary. > > -Tod Hansmann > > On 4/14/2010 7:09 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> From: Stuart Jansen<[email protected]> >> >> >>>>>> Thus, Michael may be Canadian, but Canada isn't as friendly >>>>>> to private health insurance as he makes it out to be, either! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> But you lied when you said private health insurance was illegal. >>>>> Plain and simple. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> He may have erred, but that does not mean he lied. To lie >>>> includes an element of intent to deceive, a serious charge. >>>> >>>> >>> I stand by my original statement. Alpheus was parroting lies. >>> That makes him a liar. >>> >>> >> First of all, I was parroting a news report that I had read weeks >> earlier--that does not make me a liar, because I firmly believed what I >> parroted. All of us learn facts, and all of us learn what we *think* are >> facts, and there are plenty of both that it is impossible to hunt down and >> make sure every single fact we encounter is true. If we trust in some >> source, and repeat it, that does not make us liars. In a court, it would be >> hearsay, but I have a funny feeling that these threads don't follow the >> rules of the court in submitting evidence. >> >> When I searched to back up my claim, though, I discovered something: >> measured by Canadian providences, I was 60% right, and for the remainder of >> providences, there is enough regulation to make it so that it's practically >> illegal. >> >> >> >>> There may be a difference between creating a lie and repeating >>> it, but I'm not sure it matters much. Some might argue for a >>> softer, more politically correct term, but I prefer to aim for >>> clarity. >>> >>> There's plenty of precedent for considering someone a liar even >>> if they don't know they're mistaken. ("You made a liar out of >>> me, boy!") >>> >>> >> There is also plenty of precedent for pointing out that someone is mistaken >> when they are, and not call them a liar. To the extent that I'm *still* >> defending my position, I may *still* be mistaken, but I'm not a liar on this >> issue. >> >> >> >>> Alpheus should not be asking himself, "am I a liar?" Clearly he >>> is. Instead, the question is "Why did I prefer to listen to and >>> repeat the lie?" >>> >>> We're all liars and hypocrites at different times. The question >>> is, are we also strong enough to acknowledge reality, or will we >>> continue to use emotional filters to ignore truths we're don't >>> want to hear. Political correctness will not help us arrive at >>> truth. >>> >>> >> We will always use emotional filters to ignore truths we don't want to hear, >> for two reasons: because often hold strongly to our beliefs, and because so >> many "truths" have not been absolutely decided--indeed, the studies that >> attempt to shed light on the issues may be deeply flawed. That doesn't mean >> we give up on emotions and studies! because these are the things that make >> debate so interesting. >> >> Now that I think about it, the study I discovered was conducted for the >> purpose of addressing the "Is Private Health Care in Canada Illegal?" So >> apparently when the claim was first made, it needed verification...and it >> was discovered that the claim was partly true. >> >> Of course, things could easily change overnight, especially with regards to >> regulations! which makes stating facts even more difficult, because they >> could change without notice to those "parroting" them. (In which case, they >> would be mistaken, and not liars.) >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> $13/Month Car Insurance? >> Insurance deal just passed now allows you to get car insurance for $13 >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4bc6677c61bb26aeecst04vuc >> >> /* >> PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net >> Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug >> Don't fear the penguin. >> */ >> >> >> > > /* > PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net > Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug > Don't fear the penguin. > */ > /* PLUG: http://plug.org, #utah on irc.freenode.net Unsubscribe: http://plug.org/mailman/options/plug Don't fear the penguin. */
