No Hans -- you have not made any claims for ZAP insecurity -- but you have raised a lot of negative speculation and insinuation very loudly.
As Dan has also done the same positively regarding ZAP, and returned the negative favor for FOX. I think PM's point was the same for both of you -- there is no known hard evidence that either processing engine is secure. Dan, Hans has some very good points -- there hasn't been a lot of extensive testing of ZAP. That's not to say that it doesn't work. But it hasn't been exhaustively tested -- so it cannot be proven to work in all situations. We know it works in some. That's not conclusive. Same thing goes for Fox, as far as I know. Also, Dan -- I think Hans has a good point re: documentation. In-code docs are nice. Relying on an external website that may or may not be there 3 years from now won't help me when I'm trying to understand my code 3 years from now and the website is gone. Self-documenting code is always the goal, of course -- and there's only so far one can go. Mirroring key docs on PmWiki would be good -- Jiri does this for the JITS zap-based system. There are additional concerns re: mirroring doc-changes from one site to PmWiki; but I know that if Jiri's site goes down, the docs are still available at PmWiki.org Play, nice, boys. FOX & ZAP both have their unique uses; it's a pity they aren't better integrated. -the Other michael http://www.xradiograph.com/interference http://www.xradiograph.com/wrottings On 4/18/07, Ben Stallings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I feel the need to speak up on a couple issues brought up by this thread: > > 1) I have found ZAP to be a very useful recipe, though its documentation > still needs work. I am using it on three of my production sites and it > works flawlessly. Because all three sites are password-protected, I > can't demonstrate them to the list, but if individuals would like to try > them out, contact me and I'll send you a password. The DataPlates demo > site at http://workscited.net/dataplates is still using last week's > version of ZAP, but I plan to upgrade it later today and will post a > follow-up so that you can see that it does, in fact, work as advertised. > > 2) I have found Dan to be a pleasure to work with, always responsive to > questions and suggestions and always positive and constructive in his > tone. I admit I was initially reluctant to work with him because he is > ambitious and has a rhetorical flair, but I can't argue with his > results: he programs rings around me, and he seems to test his code more > thoroughly than I do before releasing it. When I browse through the > pmwiki-users digests, there are only two people whose posts I always > read: Pm's and Dan's. > > 3) I have achieved far more in the past months by working with Dan and > ZAP than I could have by creating my own recipe. I can only imagine how > great ZAP and Fox would be today if Hans could have stood to cooperate > with Dan and produce one recipe instead of two. Forced to choose > between the two, I have had to ignore Fox, because ZAP does just what I > need. > > 3) I agree with Dan that speculations about the perceived instability of > ZAP need to be backed up by evidence; otherwise they are libel -- my > word, not Dan's. Clearly, the development cycle has been very fast and > a lot of the syntax has changed, causing some ZAP forms to break. But a > broken ZAP form is not nearly as dangerous as you might think; mostly it > just doesn't do anything. > > 4) I applaud the recent name change to Acme. I think it's a much better > name than ZAP (or Fox, for that matter). Personally I would love to see > the ZAP name phased out as the FASTdata name was, but I realize that > would create a lot of work for all of us. > > 5) Although I was as dismayed and confused as anyone by the sudden name > change and by Dan's references to writing his own wiki engine, I find > Hans's allegations about Dan's motives totally inappropriate and > uncalled for. It's one thing to ask someone publicly about their > motives, it's another to publicly accuse someone of having different > motives from what they have said. If I were Dan I would be furious at > Hans right now, and I am very impressed that he has maintained an upbeat > (if occasionally sarcastic) sense of humor. > > So, my two cents: knock if off, Hans. If you really can't work with > Dan, by all means make Fox better. But there's no need to libel either > him or his work. His "record" -- both good and bad -- stands for itself > without your contributions. --Ben _______________________________________________ pmwiki-users mailing list [email protected] http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-users
