>> - You cannot build POI offline any longer.
>
>Yes you can. I do every time.

Well, I can't. I did a CVS update (on my Internet-connected machine) 
and a "build.sh all" (in my offline resp. unrouted development 
environment), and the build script hangs in the antidote-target. 
After some time an exception message tells that some connection 
could not be established. If there is a means to run the build 
offline it is at least not obvious, neither in the build's 
interactive mode (it doesn't read the prompt) nor after a 
connection failure.


>> - You cannot build POI if you are behind a firewall.
>
>Then how do you download it?!?

As explained: on another machine. How I download the stuff doesn't 
matter at all. Imagine someone receives the sources on a CD-ROM, 
does not even have Internet access or is behind a fascist firewall. 
The disk must contain everything that is needed to build POI.


>> - You cannot follow the simple and common pattern of grabbing
>>  the CVS and compiling what you got.
>
>No, not common. Only at Apache this is common.

I am in open source business for more than 15 years (aside that it 
was not called "open source" back then). The doing traditionally 
was always to keep downloading and building independend. I think it 
was that Redmond company that required an Internet connection to 
install MSIE 4 (or so). You could not simply download the stuff on 
your Unix machine, take the files to your unconnected Windows PC 
and install them there.

We should follow the KISS principle and keep things simple and stupid.


>> The principle should be that the two steps of 1) acquiring the
>> sources and 2) building the stuff should be separate and not
>> intermixed. Generally mixing things that don't belong together
>> create all kinds of trouble. The current build mechanism ties
>> the build to the Internet without any need.
>
>No, it doesn't tie the build to internet, but it makes the download
>automatic before building.
>If you put the cents in the cent dir manually it will *not* download them.

That'd be fine for me. However, instead of trying to download the 
cent files, the build script should complain that they are not there 
and tell the developer where to get them and where to put them. And 
since he needs them anyway they could equally well be in and 
downloaded from the CVS.


>> I'd am building POI in an environment that is not connected to
>> the Internet. The source tree is updated by another machine that
>> does have Internet access but does not and should not perform
>> the build.
>
>Make it also download the cents from http://krysalis.org/jars/*.cent.jar and
>put them manually in the cents dir.

See above. The average developer should be told what the "cents 
dir" is.


>> Thus I cannot build POI presently. I'd like to see that to be
>> changed. Thanks!
>
>This is quite selfish, if you permit my opinion.

I am taking the position of Joe Developer, who needs things being 
as easy as possible. The more easy, more comfortable or more 
understandable (!) we can make the build or anything else, the more 
successful POI will be.

Do you call it selfish if I want to understand what is going on on 
my machine? I do not want to have applications setting up Internet 
connection unexpectedly. Sure, I expect that from a browser or a mail 
server, but not from a build script. Such a behaviour would give POI 
a bad reputation.


>Saying: I'm totally negative on this feature because it doesn't work as
>before for me and I don't care what the other's needs are is not the way.
>
>Glen has the opposite problem; he doesn't want to download all the libs from
>CVS if he can supply them, because he doesn't have a speedy connection.

He needs the cent files anyway and concerning the time it takes it 
doesn't make a (substancial) difference whether he download them 
from the CVS or from Krysalis. 


Best regards
Rainer Klute

                             RAINER KLUTE IT-CONSULTING
  Dipl.-Inform.
  Rainer Klute               E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  K�rner Grund 24            Telefon: +49 172 2324824
D-44143 Dortmund             Telefax: +49 231 5349423

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