[political-research] Re: Paying for the Crimes of Germans

[Sean McBride]

Good lord.  This has happened every single time I've seen a simple question asked: why should Palestinians pay for the crimes of Europeans?  How can Europeans (and other peoples) demand that Arabs, Muslims and Christians in the Mideast accept a Zionist state, when they themselves would violently resist the creation of such a state on their own territories?  Shouldn't those nations which were responsible for the Holocaust pay the price of hosting, supporting and protecting the state of Israel?   Instead a getting a direct and reasonable answer to a direct and perfectly reasonable question, I was accused of supporting Iranian Islamists.  When have I ever done anything but express the strongest possible revulsion for the current Iranian government and Islamism in general?  I intensely dislike all forms of religious fundamentalism and theocratic government.  One of the reasons I opposed the Iraq War was because it was obvious that it would radically shift the balance of power in the Mideast in favor of Iran.   It's obvious that one of the core questions about the legitimacy and fairness of Zionism simply can't be answered by anyone.  But that shouldn't stop any of us from exercising our analytical intelligence on the implications of the failure to provide an answer.  The implications are quite probably going to be horrific for the Mideast and the entire world.   It is impossible to bully into submission a people who feel from the bottom of their hearts, at the root of their being, and justly so, by any objective measure, that they have been the victims of a terrible injustice.  The United States has been maneuvered by the Israel lobby into supporting an indefensible project that may well lead to its own ruination.  The only remaining enthusiastic supporters of this venture are neoconservatives and Christian Armageddonists who are eager to instigate the destruction of the United States and the entire world as soon as possible.  George W. Bush is one of them.   Germany played a key role in setting these events in motion.  I seriously wonder if Germany shouldn't do the right thing and offer to move the entire state of Israel to an equivalent territorial area within its own borders.  Until it sincerely makes such an offer, German leaders have nothing useful to say about the march towards Armageddon in the Mideast.  Any kind of sermonizing and lecturing is especially inappropriate, including that coming from the current pope.   LeaNder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nice, how you mirror my words back to me. In a way it is a perfect sign for the fact that we will be moving in circles in this debate. You: in insisting on an answer I can't give and me: expressing amazement that democrats support the position of not so democratic forces. And that is the basic problem I have in this affair. I do not like war, but have to live with the paradox that I thank god the Americans joined the Allied forces in WWII. Gave me a chance to grow up in a free country if you do not look to closely into the continuations of the basic structures and personnel. What if I do not like the propaganda of either side? Doesn't it bother you a bit that Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust too? Should I join the far-right to support him? What if their position makes me sick? Over here they discovered Jesus as the ultimately revolutionary force against the bad Anglo-Zionist-money-makers. How utterly insincere. All they want is that German property belongs to Germans only. How comes you support democracy at home and someone like Amadinejad In Iran? Or is it this the position of a realist only? Yes many people considered Zionism a dangerous idea, including many Jewish Germans like Leon Feuchtwanger. But quite possibly he changed his mind, when he realized the full scope of the German annihilation machinery. If the British army hadn't stopped Rommels in El Alamein we might not have the "problem" today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein The fact that the diverse Protocol fictions of the 1920's feign a connection to the real Zionist congress in Basle doesn't makes things easier to penetrate. It's a simple fact that the Zionists were right in deciding to leave Germany early, as it is easy to understand that some survivors went there. And that they are all over the Arab world including in soap opera version, is just as frightening to me, as the US-Israel scenario. I admit I am a bit confused on the issue, and it always depends on what perspective I take. If I think in long historical periods, I am firmly on the Israeli side, since I can recognize recurring patterns. Much feels very familiar, with slight modifications. This obviously does not help to resolve the Palestinian crux. If I look at the "now" only, I do not like the separate listing of antisemitic incidents, I would prefer to see a database of all incidents, against religious, racial or other groups worldwide, but that is probably a vision for the future [???] and it really would need a democratic world. And from that point of view I would prefer Israel was just a Jewish/Arab state, but that you will admit is a pipe dream, and from a Zionist point of view it necessarily must be. See above. Here in Germany you seem to be much more endangered as a Turkish or African German, or as an asylum seeker for that matter. But there simply is no comparative database. And if I go to hard-right web sites I have the impression, if they were given a chance this might chance very fast. -Kraut de Cologne Search the archives for political-research at http://www.terazen.com/ Subscribe to the RSS feed for political-research at http://rss.groups.yahoo.com/group/political-research/rss YAHOO! 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