Good lord.  This has happened every single time I've seen a simple question asked: why should Palestinians pay for the crimes of Europeans?  How can Europeans (and other peoples) demand that Arabs, Muslims and Christians in the Mideast accept a Zionist state, when they themselves would violently resist the creation of such a state on their own territories?  Shouldn't those nations which were responsible for the Holocaust pay the price of hosting, supporting and protecting the state of Israel?
Instead a getting a direct and reasonable answer to a direct and perfectly reasonable question, I was accused of supporting Iranian Islamists.  When have I ever done anything but express the strongest possible revulsion for the current Iranian government and Islamism in general?  I intensely dislike all forms of religious fundamentalism and theocratic government.  One of the reasons I opposed the Iraq War was because it was obvious that it would radically shift the balance of power in the Mideast in favor of Iran.
It's obvious that one of the core questions about the legitimacy and fairness of Zionism simply can't be answered by anyone.  But that shouldn't stop any of us from exercising our analytical intelligence on the implications of the failure to provide an answer.  The implications are quite probably going to be horrific for the Mideast and the entire world.
It is impossible to bully into submission a people who feel from the bottom of their hearts, at the root of their being, and justly so, by any objective measure, that they have been the victims of a terrible injustice.  The United States has been maneuvered by the Israel lobby into supporting an indefensible project that may well lead to its own ruination.  The only remaining enthusiastic supporters of this venture are neoconservatives and Christian Armageddonists who are eager to instigate the destruction of the United States and the entire world as soon as possible.  George W. Bush is one of them.
Germany played a key role in setting these events in motion.  I seriously wonder if Germany shouldn't do the right thing and offer to move the entire state of Israel to an equivalent territorial area within its own borders.  Until it sincerely makes such an offer, German leaders have nothing useful to say about the march towards Armageddon in the Mideast.  Any kind of sermonizing and lecturing is especially inappropriate, including that coming from the current pope.
LeaNder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Nice, how you mirror my words back to me. In a way it is a perfect
sign for the fact that we will be moving in circles in this debate.
You: in insisting on an answer I can't give and me: expressing
amazement that democrats support the position of not so democratic
forces. And that is the basic problem I have in this affair. I do not
like war, but have to live with the paradox that I thank god the
Americans joined the Allied forces in WWII. Gave me a chance to grow
up in a free country if you do not look to closely into the
continuations of the basic structures and personnel.

What if I do not like the propaganda of either side?
Doesn't it bother you a bit that Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust too?
Should I join the far-right to support him? What if their position
makes me sick? Over here they discovered Jesus as the ultimately
revolutionary force against the bad Anglo-Zionist-money-makers. How
utterly insincere. All they want is that German
property belongs to Germans only.

How comes you support democracy at home and someone like
Amadinejad In Iran? Or is it this the position of a realist only?

Yes many people considered Zionism a dangerous idea, including many
Jewish Germans like Leon Feuchtwanger. But quite possibly he changed
his mind, when he realized the full scope of the German annihilation
machinery. If the British army hadn't stopped Rommels in El Alamein
we might not have the "problem" today.

The fact that the diverse Protocol fictions of the 1920's feign a
connection to the real Zionist congress in Basle doesn't makes things
easier to penetrate. It's a simple fact that the Zionists were
right in deciding to leave Germany early, as it is easy to understand
that some survivors went there. And that they are all over the Arab
world including in soap opera version, is just as frightening to me,
as the US-Israel scenario.

I admit I am a bit confused on the issue, and it always depends on
what perspective I take. If I think in long historical periods, I am
firmly on the Israeli side, since I can recognize recurring patterns.
Much feels very familiar, with slight modifications. This obviously
does not help to resolve the Palestinian crux.

If I look at the "now" only, I do not like the separate listing of
antisemitic incidents, I would prefer to see a database of all
incidents, against religious, racial or other groups worldwide, but
that is probably a vision for the future [???] and it really would
need a democratic world. And from that point of view I would prefer
Israel was just a Jewish/Arab state, but that you will admit is a pipe
dream, and from a Zionist point of view it necessarily must be. See above.

Here in Germany you seem to be much more endangered as a Turkish
or African German, or as an asylum seeker for that matter. But there
simply is no comparative database. And if I go to hard-right web sites
I have the impression, if they were given a chance this might chance
very fast.

-Kraut de Cologne

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