It's not like this is the first time this has been discussed. Back when we were a little more civil with one another; I wrote this:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:49 PM Subject: Re: CPAC: Thanks to Anti-gay Mitt Romney, There's No “Vegas of Gay Marriage” in Massachusetts To: politicalforum@googlegroups.com PlainOl, I will put my record of defending equal rights, be it based on racial discrimination, or sexual discrimination, against yours, any day of the week. That dog won't hunt. There's no bias, misinformation, or prejudice here. I am just a regular, "plain ol' " American, concerned about secularists such as yourself and the damage that you are attempting to inflict upon our Nation. I, along with other concerned Americans like myself, won't allow this revision to do down, and EVERYWHERE that there has been a public referendum, the measure(s) have been defeated. Count on it. Just as an example, "If" this was about equal rights, then Gays would accept the term, "Civil Union", which in California is the current law: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5 With purposeful , extensive, methodical propaganda, planning, massive amounts of funding by the likes of George Soros and others, and with controlled, extensive media manipulation, you, and many Americans have been intentionally misled and mislead. There has been a concerted effort by a select hard core group of secularists, who want to destroy the traditional values of this Nation, the very core values that made this Nation great. As stated, most conservatives are not objectionable to civil unions for homosexuals, albeit the gay militant movement tries to frame this as being some kind of "separate but equal" token of inequality. As I just demonstrated, California has a "domestic partner" law, which allows for civil unions between homosexuals. Ironically, we have surely not seen any of the mainstream news media focusing on this issue, as a matter of fact, most people, including homosexuals, are unaware that California has a "Civil Union" statute. To date, IN ANY STATE, there is no discrimination against homosexuals living as a couple, that a few legal documents, such as a living will, a last will, and documents allowing for the sharing of of financial portfolios and accounts would remedy. This fact in and of itself, establishes my point, that there is a secular movement in an attempt to force mainstream America to accept "gay marriage" as being the only recourse to allow homosexuals to be "equal". In fact, this is nothing but a ploy to try and force the gay lifestyle upon Americans as being "normal"; and anyone who opposes such a radical change in the definition of "Marriage" are homophobic. On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 4:40 PM, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com> wrote: We're whipping a dead horse here. > --- > I don't have an interest in the gay marriage issue and rarely speak on > it .... but I do see the anti-gay crowd as bigots - defending a word > because they're biased against homosexuals. > They are citizens just like you and me ... with all the rights that go > with be an American. > > "I/We" have provided ample examples and > proof that disproves any bigotry or ignorance. > ---- > try again ... defending the word marriage to veil your bias doesn't > work > > You PlainOl, are a > secularist, and apparently are intent on rewriting American history. > --- > the word marriage has nothing to do with American history ... now > you're a word-nazi? > > It won't work. > --- > it already is working. > Gays are going to marry nationwide and the word marriage will still > exist. > > > On Feb 14, 2:09 pm, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > We're whipping a dead horse here. "I/We" have provided ample examples > and > > proof that disproves any bigotry or ignorance. You PlainOl, are a > > secularist, and apparently are intent on rewriting American history. > > > > It won't work. > > > > On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 2:19 PM, plainolamerican > > <plainolameri...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote: > What it proves and establishes, is that like me, Trump stands for > equality and equal rights for all. You on the other hand, along with a few > Secular Progressives who hijacked a movement within the Gay community that > literally caused and formulated the militant Gay agenda, do not want > equality; you are in fact pushing for and attempting to rewrite history, > and change the fundamental core of our Nation. > > Like many who were initially pushing for "Equal Rights for Gays"; I too > wanted to see the same outcome, which is for men (and women) who choose to > join/couple, to have the same rights and benefits as a married couple. I > was rightfully convinced that there was a far sinister reason for those who > were pushing for the redefinition of marriage, versus pushing for civil > unions, when there is no distinction in law between the two, and that > redefining the definition of marriage is purposely to weaken and diminish > Christian values and tenets, of which are important to our culture. > > Here's a message that I wrote back in January of last year that I think > explains my views; and even today, I haven't changed my viewpoint. I do > believe that governments should admit that there is not now, nor has there > ever been "Civil Marriage"; but because when the several States got > involved in the "Civil Union" business, there was no clamor for same sex > civil unions, and the two terms; ee.g.; "Marriage" and "Civil Union" were > interchangeable. That was a mistake, as it's clearly not the case in the > New Millennium, and the Several States along with the Supreme Court should > to and rectify this mistake. > > Here's what I wrote: > > I have been adamantly opposed to the redefinition of marriage, and that is > exactly what has happened. Americans with traditional values and beliefs > lost this battle....In a nutshell: > > 1. I have always been in favor of, and believed that homosexual couples > who wished to "couple" had the inherent right to do so, and should have > been granted a "civil union" status, much as California, Illinois, New > Jersey and a number of States recognized. Simplified, it is my belief that > no one should be denied equal protection or equal rights under the law. > > To take this a step further, and by example, California for years had a > "Civil Union" statute for Gay men and women, which granted them the same > rights and privileges as any married man and woman: > > > http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5 > > 2. This was clearly not accepted by the militant faction of Gays, and who > demanded the redefinition of the term "Marriage". You can trace this to > the works of two gentlemen by the names of "Marshall Kirk" and "Hunter > Madsen"; who were the "Saul Alinsky's" of the Gay movement. I encourage > you to "Google" their names and read up on them. Here is just one of their > epistles, (and the name "Erastes Pill" was Madsen's "pen name") : > > http://library.gayhomeland.org/0018/EN/EN_Overhauling_Straight.htm > > Make no mistake, Madsen and Kirk were Anti-American, Marxist/Democrat > secularists who waged a war against American culture, which is still raging > today! > > 3. Marriage is, and always has been an ecclesiastical function, and the > several States, (namely it was California and Connecticut) who first got > into the marriage business, the purpose being to stop miscegenation. > Later, the States getting involved in regulating Marriage was obviously > needed, with the divorce rates in this nation, and moderating/arbitrating > those contracts. Obviously, had the thought of, or had there been a > faction in our society 150 years ago that was advocating same sex marriage, > they would have been mocked and laughed at, and more importantly, the term > "Marriage" would not have been applied to civil unions performed by the > States. The reason the term "Marriage" is utilized today, is because these > functions were carried over from the Church, and a matter of expediency. > > 4. Today, it is my belief that a State issued "Marriage License" is > nothing more than, and nothing less than a "Civil Union". That governments > should not be involved in an ecclesiastical function whatsoever. That all > marriages outside of a Church should be recognized as only a "Civil Union", > whether it be between a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a > man, or a man and a goat! "IF" you can find a Church to marry you, then > more power to you! > > Again, I have tried to be brief and simplify my response here....I could > take ten pages and several hours to respond, but in general, we've lost the > battle! I hope that you will take the time to read and understand how and > why we did! > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 2:27 PM, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> Trump has in fact supported civil unions; but is opposed to Gay marriage. >> I concur. >> --- >> that's what I said. >> I also said that if you disagreed with Trump you were the better person. >> I see you're not. >> >> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 1:16:09 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>> >>> I cannot find the exact article that you're citing from, but the "cut >>> and paste" that you've cited are only parts of what Donald Trump has said; >>> and there's plenty of examples all over the web. >>> >>> Trump has been opposed to the Supreme Court's ruling, believing that >>> this should be a State issue; (I concur; both from a Constitutional >>> standpoint and previous Supreme Court rulings); Trump has in fact >>> supported civil unions; but is opposed to Gay marriage. >>> >>> I concur. >>> >>> Again, you are manufacturing and posting lies and misinformation, which >>> is typical of Secular Progressives. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 1:46 PM, plainolamerican <plainol...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Again, I encourage you to read, study, and stay away from the far left >>>> Soros funded (or the globalist/elitist) hate sites. >>>> --- >>>> flush ... already addressed. Soros is pos and does not influence my >>>> vote. >>>> >>>> Like myself, Donald Trump has always supported equal rights for the Gay >>>> community. >>>> --- >>>> hogwash. >>>> Trump has consistently maintained his opposition to marriage equality, >>>> sometimes by citing polling and making an analogy to his dislike of long >>>> golf putters. After the Supreme Court ruling, Trump said the court had made >>>> its decision and, although he disagreed with the ruling, he did not support >>>> a constitutional amendment that would allow states to re-ban marriage >>>> equality. He later said he would appoint Supreme Court judges who would be >>>> committed to overturning the ruling. >>>> *Trump Said He Would “Strongly Consider” Appointing Judges To Overturn >>>> Same-Sex Marriage Decision. *Asked on Fox News Sunday “WALLACE: But -- >>>> but just to button this up very quickly, sir, are you saying that if you >>>> become president, you might try to appoint justices to overrule the >>>> decision on same-sex marriage?” TRUMP: “I would strongly consider that, >>>> yes.” [Fox News Sunday, 1/31/2016 >>>> <http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2016/01/31/ted-cruz-attacks-donald-trump-financial-record-trump-responds/>; >>>> VIDEO] >>>> *Trump Compared Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage To Disliking Extra Long >>>> Putters In Golf.* At one point, he compared his opposition to the >>>> legalization of same-sex marriage to his reluctance to use a new kind of >>>> putter. ‘It’s like in golf,’ he said. ‘A lot of people — I don’t want this >>>> to sound trivial — but a lot of people are switching to these really long >>>> putters, very unattractive,’ said Mr. Trump, a Republican. ‘It’s weird. You >>>> see these great players with these really long putters, because they can’t >>>> sink three-footers anymore. And, I hate it. I am a traditionalist. >>>> >>>> Marriage is not an equal right, but instead is a "Special Right" that >>>> is afforded to Gays because of their sexuality, >>>> --- >>>> opinion noted ... not shared. >>>> >>>> and denied to people like you and I because of who we choose to hop in >>>> the sack with. >>>> --- >>>> cite example. >>>> >>>> Moreover, the laws now discriminate against some Christians because >>>> of their deeply held religious beliefs. >>>> --- >>>> bs ... it's because they're refusing to serve lgbt's. They're >>>> judgmental assholes and a courtroom awaits their sorry asses. >>>> >>>> I don't expect you to understand this; as I have pointed out this >>>> morning, it has become increasingly clear that you don't have the >>>> educational background, nor the critical thinking skills to fathom or >>>> understand critical, cognitive thinking. >>>> --- >>>> delusion noted ... and a typical debate technique used when someone >>>> can't present an argument ... so their response is, 'you don't understand' >>>> or 'you're ignorant blah, blah, blah.' >>>> I have a bachelors degree and a master's degree ... how about you? >>>> >>>> Still, I encourage you to try and read, study, and expand your >>>> sources of information, which is all that any of us can do. >>>> --- >>>> backatcha >>>> >>>> You should literally make it a point to check and re-check your sources >>>> of information. As we've covered this morning, you have posted blatantly >>>> false, fictitious information and it's not becoming to be a Secular >>>> Progressive who is also known for being a liar. (*See* >>>> TommyTomTomForNews) >>>> --- >>>> I present a lot of article that may or may not be true ... that doesn't >>>> mean I agree with them .. like your persecution of lgbt's like Trumpass. >>>> >>>> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 11:57:21 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Again, I encourage you to read, study, and stay away from the far left >>>>> Soros funded (or the globalist/elitist) hate sites. >>>>> >>>>> Like myself, Donald Trump has always supported equal rights for the >>>>> Gay community. Marriage is not an equal right, but instead is a "Special >>>>> Right" that is afforded to Gays because of their sexuality, and denied to >>>>> people like you and I because of who we choose to hop in the sack with. >>>>> Moreover, the laws now discriminate against some Christians because of >>>>> their deeply held religious beliefs. >>>>> >>>>> I don't expect you to understand this; as I have pointed out this >>>>> morning, it has become increasingly clear that you don't have the >>>>> educational background, nor the critical thinking skills to fathom or >>>>> understand critical, cognitive thinking. Still, I encourage you to try >>>>> and read, study, and expand your sources of information, which is all >>>>> that >>>>> any of us can do. >>>>> >>>>> You should literally make it a point to check and re-check your >>>>> sources of information. As we've covered this morning, you have posted >>>>> blatantly false, fictitious information and it's not becoming to be a >>>>> Secular Progressive who is also known for being a liar. (*See* >>>>> TommyTomTomForNews) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:46 PM, plainolamerican <plainol...@gmail.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> if so, you're better than Donald Trumpass. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 11:46:02 AM UTC-5, plainolamerican wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hardly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> so you are for allowing lgbt's to marry and receive equal benefits? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 11:37:25 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hardly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But not at all surprising coming from someone like you. Typical >>>>>>>> Politically Correct asinine intolerance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:27 PM, plainolamerican < >>>>>>>> plainol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/presidential-candidate-donald-trump-stance-same-sex-marriage-offends-gay-activist-article-1.122915 >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> wrong again .... as if you don't agree with denying lgbt's the >>>>>>>>> right to marry and equal benefits, homophobe. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/presidential-candidate-donald-trump-stance-same-sex-marriage-offends-gay-activist-article-1.122915 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 7:57:55 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your quote from the Des Moines Register is a blatant lie. I got >>>>>>>>>> no further than that, this is typical, and of course, you will >>>>>>>>>> acknowledge >>>>>>>>>> this and/or be now known as a Secular Progressive >>>>>>>>>> "LilMarxistMoonbatTomForNews" like liar >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 8:44 AM, plainolamerican < >>>>>>>>>> plainol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Far left extremist Anti-American Secular Progressives have no >>>>>>>>>>> idea what Donald Trump has said, or what his message is. >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> delusion noted. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> his message? >>>>>>>>>>> he changes his words and opinions more than GHWBush changes his >>>>>>>>>>> Depends. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> from his own words we know he would deny lgbt's equal rights ... >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, Trump talked to the Des Moines Register about >>>>>>>>>>> "exploring" a presidential run, and was asked f he supports >>>>>>>>>>> "allowing >>>>>>>>>>> same-sex couples to marry." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Trump said "no," but didn't stop there. When asked whether gay >>>>>>>>>>> couples should have access to "the same benefits as married >>>>>>>>>>> couples," the >>>>>>>>>>> mogul initially replied that his attitude on the issue was not yet >>>>>>>>>>> "fully >>>>>>>>>>> formed." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> After thinking about it for a moment, however, Trump said: "As >>>>>>>>>>> of this moment, I would say no and no" to gay marriage and civil >>>>>>>>>>> benefits. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> from his own words we know he would try to build a fence on our >>>>>>>>>>> southern border ... which is wrong for humans and wildlife. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> “I will build a great wall – and nobody builds walls better than >>>>>>>>>>> me, believe me – and I’ll build them very inexpensively. I will >>>>>>>>>>> build a >>>>>>>>>>> great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico >>>>>>>>>>> pay for >>>>>>>>>>> that wall. Mark my words.” >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> from his own words we know he's a xenophobe and would try to get >>>>>>>>>>> china to assassinate the leader of north korea. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuIClGGj758 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> from his own words we know he would punish women who have >>>>>>>>>>> abortions >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Jpoecf0xY >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> should I continue? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> regardless of his opinions, I will won't vote for him because >>>>>>>>>>> he, like other neocons and zionists, are hateful toward other >>>>>>>>>>> nations, >>>>>>>>>>> supports the failed US interventionist policy and is unfit and >>>>>>>>>>> knowledgeable to represent America. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 5:56:58 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Typical! Far left extremist Anti-American Secular Progressives >>>>>>>>>>>> have no idea what Donald Trump has said, or what his message is. >>>>>>>>>>>> All they >>>>>>>>>>>> know, is "Bad~~Bad~~Hill Clinton"; and whatever their George Soros >>>>>>>>>>>> mouthpiece tells them to think! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 6:24 PM, plainolamerican < >>>>>>>>>>>> plainol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> great ... his Bachelor of General Studies >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_General_Studies> degree >>>>>>>>>>>>> in criminology <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminology> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and physiology <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiology> should >>>>>>>>>>>>> really help. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that said ... you can bet he won't be blasting hispanics and >>>>>>>>>>>>> muslims like Trumpasshole. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 4:47:42 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Click here: Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson Hints at Political >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Future - Christine Rousselle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/06/02/dwayne-the-rock-johnson-hints-at-political-future-n2172412> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For options & help see >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. 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