Well, in this instance, the NYT released this information (as well as the ACLU) with the Obama Administration's blessing.
Nevertheless, (and I agree that it was a mistake to have released this info) I do surmise that this is going to come back to bite the Obama Administration in the ass. These memorandums basically exonerate the Bush Administration. At least they do in my mind. I see a lot of left wing hate sites calling this torture, (including the ACLU) and I am just not seeing it. Someone, anyone, please point out how this constitutes torture!!! On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 5:10 PM, dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net>wrote: > One of the reasons I despise the NYT. They have made a practice of > releasing info like this which plays right into the hands of our enemies. > Note the cell phone fiasco where they let Al Qaeda know that we were > tracking their cell phones. Same with the SWIFT money transfers. I was > responsible for that system when I worked for a large bank and know what was > involved. That little bit made sure we could not stop Al Qaeda from passing > money that we had been tracking. This is just more of the same. Do these > leftists really have that much of a suicide wish? > > > Keith In Tampa wrote: > > I totally agree Rigs. It was a mistake to have released these documents, > for the very reason that you allude to. It weakens our intelligence > gathering, as well as prepares these homicidal murdering Muslims for what > our tactics and techniques are. > > Now that the documents have been released, (and I believe that the purpose > was to somehow discredit the Former Bush Adminstration) there should be a > full fledged investigation. All of the facts need to now come out. I > wouldn't even mind seeing a special investigator brought into the fold, > because, based on these reports, President Bush and his Administration are > heroes. > > If one reads the reports, I don't know how anyone can come to any other > conclusion than President Bush and his Administration literally saved > hundreds of thousands of Americans' lives, and that there was no torture! > > Like I said, I think the purpose of the Obama Administration's releasing > these documents was an attempt to discredit the Bush Administration, but > anyone who takes the time to read them will realize just the opposite. This > is going to backfire on Obama!! > > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:12 PM, rigsy03 <rigs...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> What has saved Isreal? Brains! Even the photo of the former head of >> Mossad prompted every secret. O- those eyes penetrating into my soul- >> worse than a priest! >> >> On Apr 19, 2:57�pm, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Hey Daniel, >> > >> > I don't doubt that your premise is correct, especially the current >> > Administration's attempt to besmirch the previous Administration. �But >> once >> > you read the Memoranda, I honestly don't see how any thinking American >> can >> > come to the conclusion that the Memoranda is harmful against President >> Bush >> > or any of his advisors! >> > >> > These enhanced interrogation tactics saved Washington D.C. from a dirty >> > bomb. �These enhanced interrogation tactics saved another jet liner from >> > crashing into a Los Angeles skyscraper. �These enhanced interrogation >> > tactics allowed our intelligence to penetrate al Quieda's as well as the >> > Taliban's hierarchy, stop their money flow, and as stated, prevented >> > literally hundreds of thousands of American's deaths...... >> > >> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Daniel Seigler >> > <danielseig...@hotmail.com>wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > let me try again >> > > the declassification/release of the CIA �interrogation techniques was >> > > done in an attempt by the Executive Branch of the federal government >> > > to show transparency. �Mind you, fact that all the documents released >> > > were containing information designed AGAINST the last administration >> > > is something you are supposed to not notice. >> > > So how is it that the administration touting transparency has YET to >> > > provide a bonefide birth certificate showing that Mr. Soetore has the >> > > Constitutional qualifications to hold his present office? �They have >> > > even gone to far as to threaten SANCTIONS against a lawyer and his >> > > VETERAN client for ASKING. >> > >> > > On Apr 19, 12:30 pm, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > � Good Afternoon, >> > >> > > > As probably everyone in the Group is aware, last week, the Obama >> > > > Administration released several CIA Memorandums outlining and >> detailing >> > > some >> > > > of the enhanced interrogation techniques that were used back in 2002 >> and >> > > > 2003 against homicidal murderers who were intent upon attacking the >> > > United >> > > > States. >> > >> > > > Many far left publications, including the New York Times, have >> labeled >> > > these >> > > > enhanced interrogation techniques as "torture". �I have seen many >> members >> > > of >> > > > this group, (and most especially members of Euwetopia and Politics >> *Du >> > > Jour*) >> > > > also label these enhanced interrogation techniques as "torture". >> > >> > > > There is a divergence of opinion and what I perceive to be a stark >> > > contrast >> > > > in beliefs between those Americans who I consider to hold far left >> > > extremist >> > > > viewpoints, as compared to those Americans who I deem to be rational >> > > > thinkers. �Herein lies the very crux of the cultural divide in our >> > > Nation. >> > >> > > > There are actually several Memoranda that were released, and I opine >> that >> > > > the two which shed the most light were written by Steven Bradbury, >> one on >> > > > May 10th 2005 and one on May 30th 2005. �I have cited portions from >> the >> > > May >> > > > 10, 2005 Memorandum in this message, which can be found here: >> > >> > > > >> http://s3.amazonaws.com/propublica/assets/missing_memos/28OLCmemofina... >> > >> > > > All of the Memoranda can be found on the ACLU's web site, and the >> May >> > > 30th >> > > > 2005 Memorandum goes into pretty specific detail with regard to the >> > > actual >> > > > techniques and tactics used: >> > >> > > > �http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/olc_memos.html >> > >> > > > The May 10th Memoranda ("The Memorandum") goes into finite detail >> > > regarding >> > > > the procedures utilized against some twenty-eight, (28) >> detainees/enemy >> > > > combatants, where some minor form of enhanced interrogation >> techniques >> > > were >> > > > utlized. *See* Memorandum at 5-6. � �These techniques ranged (among >> other >> > > > minor tactics which are listed in the report) from �forcing the >> detainee >> > > > to remain nude which might cause embarassment, (there was no sexual >> abuse >> > > or >> > > > threats of sexual abuse, and the ambient air temperature was always >> above >> > > 68 >> > > > � F); �to dietary manipulation which consisted of a bland, >> commerical >> > > liquid >> > > > diet, but had sufficient caloric intake of over 1,000 Calories a >> day; >> > > �(and >> > > > the detainee could drink as much water as he pleased); to sleep >> > > deprivation, >> > > > where a detainee might in fact be kept awake for up to 96 hours, >> > > (something >> > > > that I imagine all of us have done at some point in time, I know I >> > > have!!) >> > > > *See* Memorandum at 12-15, 31-33. >> > >> > > > If these measures failed, then more severe coercive techniques were >> > > > utilized, such as the "false wall" technique, where a detainee was >> pushed >> > > > against a collapsable wall, �more for the noise level effect and the >> > > > detainee was absolutely never subjected to �pain or any harm done to >> his >> > > > person. �The old, "Water Splashing" technique was also utilized, >> wherein >> > > a >> > > > detainee was splashed with water that was always above 41 � F, and >> > > usually >> > > > above 50 � F. �The Detainee was always in ambient air temperatures >> of >> > > above >> > > > 68 � F, and there was precautions to insure that the detainee was >> never >> > > > allowed to sit in the wet clothing where there was any danger of >> > > > hypothermia. �*See* Memorandum at 15, 35. >> > >> > > > The final, most drastic step was "waterboarding" where at no time >> was the >> > > > detainee ever subjected to pain, or any kind of physical >> > > > harm!!! Waterboarding is based on a deeply rooted physiological >> response >> > > which >> > > > makes an individual believe that he is drowning, even if he knows >> that no >> > > > harm will come to him. �*See *Memorandum at 15. >> > >> > > > To date, there has only been 3, (Count em': �THREE �!!!) detainees >> who >> > > were >> > > > ever exposed to the waterboarding technique. �Those three homicidal >> > > > murderers who were exposed to the waterboarding technique were Abu >> > > Zubaydah, >> > > > Kahlid Shaykh Muhammad, and Rahim al Nashiri. �*See* Memorandum at >> 7, >> > > > 35. � They actually had to bitch slap al Nashiri to shut him up, >> after >> > > one >> > > > short water boarding episode.....*See* Memorandum at �8. �(I am >> kidding >> > > > here!!) >> > >> > > > �After reading the report, I don't think any rational person, any >> > > thinking >> > > > American, could conclude that the acts described in the "Bradbury >> Report" >> > > > can be construed as torture. �At no time were either Zubdayah, >> Khalid >> > > > (Sheikh Mohammed) , or al Nashari; *e.g*.; the the only three >> individuals >> > > > who were waterboarded, ever exposed to any mental or physical harm, >> nor >> > > were >> > > > they ever remotely placed in danger or harm's way. >> > >> > > > Never were any of the total of 28 detainees who were exposed to the >> > > > lesser enhanced interrogation tactics, �and the three who were >> exposed to >> > > > the waterboarding, ever subjected to pain. >> > >> > > > �At all times during any enhanced interrogation tactics, there was >> always >> > > a >> > > > medical doctor, and a psychologist present to monitor these >> homicidal >> > > > murderers' �physical and mental conditions, and to insure that these >> > > > detainees were ever subjected to any physcial or mental harm!! >> > >> > > > These enhanced interrogation tactics never lasted longer than 30 >> days, >> > > and >> > > > usually only lasted for a period not exceeding seven days. >> > > > (*See*Memorandum at 7) >> > >> > > > Just as important.....No, more importantly, the results of the >> enhanced >> > > > interrogation tactics DID WORK SUCCESSFULLY!! >> > >> > > > After repeated attempts to obtain information from Khalid and >> > > > Zubdayah regarding al Queida plans to attack our Nation, and prior >> to any >> > > > enhanced interrogation tactics by the CIA, Khalid's only response >> would >> > > be, >> > > > "Soon you will know". � *See* Memorandum at 9. >> > >> > > > After Khalid got doused with a little bit of water, and was finally >> > > > subjected to (again, medically supervised waterboarding) �Khalid >> finally >> > > > revealed the plot to crash a plane into a Los Angeles skyscraper, as >> well >> > > as >> > > > attacks on Los Angeles International Airport. � That the cell who >> was >> > > > planning to carry this attack out, (parts of the cell were located >> here >> > > in >> > > > the United States) �were apprehended. �Through the enhanced >> interrogation >> > > > techniques, it was learned of a plot to set off a dirty bomb in >> > > Washington >> > > > D.C. as well as the structure of al Queida and various cells and >> > > structure >> > > > of al Queida and the Taliban. �*See *Memorandum at 10-11. >> > >> > > > In other words, these techniques saved literally hundreds of >> thousands >> > > �of >> > > > Americans' lives in Washington D.C. and Southern California. >> > >> > > > I would encourage everyone to take thirty minutes and at least read >> the >> > > May >> > > > 10th Report, especially if you are one that beleives our Nation >> engaged >> > > in >> > > > "Torture". >> > >> > > > Specifically, I want to understand those who believe that we engaged >> in >> > > > tortuous activities' train of thought and how you come to this >> > > conclusion. >> > > > I am not attempting to be facetious, I am literally trying to >> understand >> > > > those who hold the view that the enhanced interrogation tactics as >> > > somehow >> > > > constituting torture, and how you all ascertain this belief. >> > >> > > > I would �love to hear Mark's (The Annointed One!!) Lobo's, Biff's >> > > Fritz's, >> > > > Golem's and many of the Euewtopians' perspectives and opinions on >> the >> > > > report, (as well as any other members' thoughts on the Bradbury >> Report) >> > >> > > > Respectfully, >> > >> > > > Keith In Tampa >> > >> > > �> �olc_05102005_bradbury46pg.pdf >> > > > 3712KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - >> >> >> > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
