BTW, evasion is usually written into laws or lawyers of conscience would never defend obvious criminals.
On Apr 22, 12:05�am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for the dance �experience and common sense must teach evasion > now.............. > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 11:02 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > And I respectfully urge you to "think on your feet". I am not a > > lawyer- just a voice. Sometimes the frayed thread is a greater > > truth.// There is ambivalence about lawyers and laws, doctors and > > procedures, politicians and govenance, teachers and knowledge and so > > on and that's where I pitch my tent. I often wonder how cops can > > restrain themselves from applying physical abuse upon criminals when I > > squish a bug and feel guilty. Criminality and abuse are protected- by > > laws and lawyers. So you can cite statutes from here to eternity but I > > guess most acquire a sense of justice from experience- common sense- > > and we do it without compensation. > > > On Apr 21, 3:34 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Nice dodge.... answer the question or decline to do so but quit dancing > > and > > > keep this in the scope of the thread. > > > �> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:55 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You are the one talking about physical abuse which is no longer > > > > necessary in this techie age. There are so many tracers now- > > > > electronic, DNA.//This issue actually came up several times raising my > > > > children as a single mother- it is handled differently on a > > > > neighborhood basis. You need several "hats". > > > > > On Apr 21, 2:45 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > and the question remains that if your childs very best friend > > severely > > > > > screwed up is it ok to abuse your kid to get info on the friend ?? > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:43 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I raised law abiding children and suggest others do the same > > although > > > > > > some stories spring to mind from youth's merry pranks. I think > > there > > > > > > is more misery with lawyers than cops! :-) > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 2:32 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > so its fine if they think they have reason to whack on your kid > > then. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > You must have no idea what metropolitan police are dealing with > > in > > > > our > > > > > > > > society. Pity. > > > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 2:19 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So the various police forces in the US should return to the > > day > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > rubber hoses ?? And when your son/daughter/family member does > > not > > > > > > "rat > > > > > > > > out" > > > > > > > > > its ok to "save the many" by using it ?? > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:16 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The Left does not understand mental torture/extraction of > > > > > > information. > > > > > > > > > > Mossad does, evidently.//I don't think the ME terrorists > > have > > > > > > arrived > > > > > > > > > > at the mental category of interrogations which the Left > > > > assumes. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > Left is a victim oriented mentality to begin with- pass the > > > > > > Band-Aids. > > > > > > > > > > As unemployment and crime rises in their cities and their > > > > > > experience > > > > > > > > > > first hand challenges them, we will see. > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 21, 1:46 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > One question NOT debated is "If these methods did save > > > > hundreds > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > lives, is it justified??? If one takes the position of > > no, > > > > then > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > place yourself into the position of saying "not torturing > > 1 > > > > man > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > more important than hundreds of lives".... To date the > > Left > > > > > > ignores > > > > > > > > > > > this question with the unproven claim the "torture will > > never > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > any worthwhile information"... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 20, 10:46 pm, Keith In Tampa < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I start out where I left off last night. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That I am attempting to understand and comprehend the > > facts > > > > of > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > > > > > > place with our treatment of prisoners. The thirty > > detainess > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > been specifically referenced by Bybee, Bradbury and to > > a > > > > degree > > > > > > Yoo > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's "Working > > > > Group > > > > > > Within > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > > > Department of Defense"; these thirty detainees were > > > > subjected > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > enhanced > > > > > > > > > > > > interrogation tactics, which by Department of Defense > > and > > > > CIA > > > > > > > > > > classification > > > > > > > > > > > > were either level I, II or III categories of enhhanced > > > > tactics, > > > > > > > > (Level > > > > > > > > > > III > > > > > > > > > > > > being the most alarming and disconcerting) and > > according to > > > > > > > > recently > > > > > > > > > > > > released information, only three detainees were ever > > > > subjected > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Level > > > > > > > > > > III > > > > > > > > > > > > tactics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone can deny that of these thirty > > > > individuals, > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > > > > > > undoubtedly intent on destroying our very way of life, > > and > > > > the > > > > > > > > United > > > > > > > > > > States > > > > > > > > > > > > as we know it. Obviously, with the more information > > that is > > > > > > > > released, > > > > > > > > > > > > the better to understand and comprehend the facts. As I > > > > said > > > > > > last > > > > > > > > > > evening, > > > > > > > > > > > > if I sound like I am playing "devil's advocate" it is > > only > > > > my > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > > > and personal mechanism to comprehend and understand the > > > > facts, > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > (with > > > > > > > > > > > > unclassified security clearances) know them to be. I > > make > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > argument > > > > > > > > > > > > here. Instead, I am only trying to ascertain two > > distinct > > > > > > issues: > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1) "Whether the CIA interrogators', (or other American > > > > > > "authorized > > > > > > > > > > > > interrogators' ") use of enhanced interrogation tactics > > > > > > constituted > > > > > > > > > > > > "torture"; and > > > > > > > > > > > > > (2) "Whether the United States somehow avoided or > > evaded > > > > > > principles > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > Geneva Accords, as well as the Convention Against > > Torture > > > > and > > > > > > Other > > > > > > > > > > Cruel, > > > > > > > > > > > > Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment; (e.g.; > > "Cat") > > > > and > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > international treatise of which the United States is a > > > > > > signatory; > > > > > > > > thus > > > > > > > > > > > > making the actions of the Bush Administration > > > > unconstitutional. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** Not only did I send my initial message predominately > > > > > > regarding > > > > > > > > > > Steven > > > > > > > > > > > > Bradbury's May 10, 2005 and May 30, 2005 Memorandums to > > > > > > > > PoliticalForum, > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > I also sent it to several attorney friends of mine, one > > > > here in > > > > > > > > Tampa > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > one in Washington, D.C. who specializes in > > International > > > > Law. I > > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > sent my message to another attorney in Gainesville > > Florida > > > > who > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > > > > forwarded my message to other attornies, or at least > > she > > > > > > forwarded > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > message to individuals who seem to have given these > > issues > > > > a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > deal > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > thought. Surprisingly, (with a couple of exceptions) > > most > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > replies > > > > > > > > > > > > by counsel have been very much colored by partisan > > > > politics, > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > a bit > > > > > > > > > > > > of a shock to me. It would appear that their cognitive > > and > > > > > > critical > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking skills and abilities are so clouded by their > > > > apparent > > > > > > > > hatred > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > the previous Adminstration, that they can no longer see > > > > this > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > rational, non-partisan standpoint. > > > > > > > > > > > > > A couple of thoughts that keep coming to mind: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a prisoner, say in any United States jail or prison > > is a > > > > > > danger > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > himself, or to others that may very well effect the > > safety > > > > or > > > > > > > > security > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > the prison, because of this prisoner's mental > > disability, > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > prison > > > > > > > > > > > > officials or his jailers administer psychotropic drugs > > upon > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > prisoner > > > > > > > > > > > > against his will in order to maintain safety and > > security > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > prison, > > > > > > > > > > > > does this constitute "torture" to the prisoner? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that this question, "dodges the bullet" so to > > speak, > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > assuming > > ... > > read more �- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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