You really don;t read or pay attention to the news do you? You fools said the same things about WMD's that mistake only cost 4000 US lives and maimed only 30,000.
When Republicans make mistakes Americans die. Good track record you got going there. On May 17, 10:17 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > Sean, > > So, this is really what it boils down to, as I suspicioned. What you are > really saying is, "I Hate Bush, But I Don't Know Why". > > What transpired at Abu Gharib is not at all what transpired with enhanced > interrogation techniques by the CIA. The Army has no mechanism other than > the Army Field Manual to interrogate prisoners. Those individuals were > prosecuted because they were outside of Army regulations. > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 3:26 AM, VT VirtualTruth > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > If we tried the little guys for what happened at Abu Gharib > > then the precedent has already been set for the ENTIRE > > Bush Administration. > > > I believe Nixon was also Impeached for his crimes > > during the Vietnam war. > > > Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment for his crimes > > while in office, and Republicans pushed all out to impeach > > Clinton while in office about a lie over a BJ. > > > So both your reasons for calling me a traitor have both been > > proven false based on previous precedent. > > > You have nothing left to say, because you have run > > out of realistic arguments. > > > On May 16, 4:47 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey Sean!! > > > > Actually, I thought my post was rather witty!! > > > > In all honesty, you seem like a bright, intelligent, (I am assuming > > younger > > > than me) man. It is one thing to question our governments' policies, > > and > > > quite another to jump on a traitorous bandwagon, accusing our President, > > > (any President!) during a time of war, of war crimes. > > > > I have nothing else to say on the subject. Based on all of the > > information > > > that has been released to date, I don't believe that we ever "tortured" > > > anyone. That this is just a hyped up term used by far left extremists > > who > > > are either uninformed, and/or have an Anti-American agenda. One or the > > > other.... > > > > Until such time as more information has been released, (which initially I > > > was opposed to, but now, because the Obama Administration chose to > > release > > > the several Memoranda by Bybee and Bradbury) I want to see everything > > > released, including the documents from July 2004 that former Vice > > President > > > Cheney has requested be released. > > > > Until such time, I can add nothing to the conversation.....I've said my > > > piece, both here in PF, as well as that Den of Moonbats, Euwetopia. > > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > That was the best you could do? > > > > > Keith you want to try again? > > > > > On May 16, 1:38 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM, VT Sean Lewis > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > The shifting denial about torture. > > > > > > > May 16, 2009 > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > Torture is just one more nail into the coffin > > > > > > for the Republican Party. > > > > > > > Cheney is just trying to protect himself and > > > > > > doing preemptive damage control. It is clear > > > > > > the torture policy was his decision. Cheney > > > > > > is hoping for another terror attack so he can > > > > > > be vindicated the same way the entire GOP > > > > > > party wants President Obama to fail so the > > > > > > GOP policies can be vindicated. > > > > > > > The water down spin on torture is that water > > > > > > boarding is not torture. Dunking someones > > > > > > head is hardly torture, it is like getting baptised! > > > > > > The rough questioning was needed to get results! > > > > > > > However a few things are being left out, 98 > > > > > > dead prisoners, the torture did not work, and > > > > > > torture is against the both US and International > > > > > > law. > > > > > > > If all the CIA was doing was 'questioning' prisoners > > > > > > why was a doctor needed to be present? > > > > > > > I have been questioned by the police, no doctor was present. > > > > > > > In previous questioning by the FBI, no doctor was present, > > > > > > so what changed? > > > > > > > What changed was there was now a chance that the prisoner > > > > > > might die from the harsh interrogation. In fact 98 prisoners > > > > > > who were being held for 'questioning died. > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/04/98-prisoners-died-in-us-. > > > > .. > > > > > > > This article had 623 footnotes verifying the deaths. > > > > > >http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06221-etn-hrf-dic-rep-web.pdf > > > > > > I posted one of those footnotes at the end of this article. > > > > > > > The Torture Apologists want you to believe that water boarding > > > > > > is not dangerous, problem is water boarding wasn't the only > > > > > > harsh treatment the prisoners received. A point the Torture > > Apologist > > > > > > conveniently do not bring up. Also if it wasn't torture > > > > > > explain the 98 dead prisoners? > > > > > > > Next comes the issue of why the prisoners were being tortured > > > > > > and what were the results of the torture. > > > > > > > We were told that the torture was to protect Americans from future > > > > > > attack, and that valuable information came as a result of the > > torture. > > > > > > This was after we were told that the US does not torture by the > > way. > > > > > > > The truth is that the CIA was torturing prisoners. not to protect > > > > > > America or Americans, but to find a connection between Iraq and > > > > > > 9/11 or a connection between Iraq and Al qaeda. This was to > > > > > > give cover to the Bush Administration after no WMD's were found > > > > > > in Iraq. > > > > > > > The torture how ever did not work, In fact it had the opposite > > effect. > > > > > > Prisoners who were cooperating and freely giving valuable Intel > > about > > > > > > Al qaeda without torture to the FBI, stopped cooperation when the > > > > > > CIA began torturing them about non existent connections between > > > > > > Iraq and 9/11 or Iraq and Al Qaeda. > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/timeline-history-of-hars. > > > > .. > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/report-links-cia-to-mili. > > > > .. > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/harsh-interrogation-tech. > > > > .. > > > > > > > The legality of torture is, there is none. The Bush Administration > > > > > > knew > > > > > > this so in an effort to do a work around, the Bush Administration > > > > > > redefined the status of the prisoners to a classification the Bush > > > > > > Administration > > > > > > deemed outside of the Geneva Convention. > > > > > > > Next came the justification of 'Harsh Interrogation' because of the > > > > > > 'ticking > > > > > > time bomb' scenario. The White House ordered White House attorneys > > to > > > > > > write briefs not only saying that harsh interrogation was not > > torture, > > > > > > but > > > > > > instances when harsh interrogation was prudent and advised. > > > > > > > Two problems with this, the need for a doctor during 'questioning' > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > 98 dead prisoners, also the questioning of the prisoners had > > nothing > > > > > > to > > > > > > do with an imminent threat that was time sensitive. It was about > > > > > > getting > > > > > > back fill Intel to justify the Iraq invasion. > > > > > > > Currently the Torture Apologists are trying to say that key > > democratic > > > > > > leaders > > > > > > were also culpable in the torture. The belief is, if everyone is > > > > > > guilty then > > > > > > no one is guilty. The Torture Apologists are floating out the > > Pelosi > > > > > > knew > > > > > > so it;s her fault the torture occurred. > > > > > > > The CIA said that the Leaders of the Democratic and Republican > > Parties > > > > > > were > > > > > > briefed about the torture already being used against prisoners. > > When > > > > > > asked > > > > > > for the dates of the briefings, the CIA gave four dates two in > > April > > > > > > of '02, > > > > > > two in September." When these dates were checked, it was discovered > > > > > > that > > > > > > three of these meetings never occurred. The fourth meeting was on > > the > > > > > > topic > > > > > > of prisoner interrogation. The CIA says they INFORMED the Leaders > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > torture, even though it was already occurring without Congressional > > > > > > Approval > > > > > > or Knowledge for a month or more. The Congressional Leaders > > disagree > > > > > > with > > > > > > these facts and based on the erroneous dates already supplied, one > > has > > > > > > to > > > > > > wonder what else the CIA has wrong? > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/floridas-graham-backs-pe. > > > > .. > > > > > > > So the Torture Apologists have shifted reasons for Torture each > > time > > > > > > their > > > > > > reasons have been proven to be flawed or wrong. This is reminiscent > > of > > > > > > the reasons > > > > > > to invade Iraq. The Apologists have claimed there was no torture, > > that > > > > > > the torture > > > > > > wasn't limited, that the torture was needed to protect America and > > > > > > finally that the > > > > > > torture approved of by the Democratic leaders so it was OK. > > > > > > > The one thing the Torture Apologists keep forgetting is this. > > Torture > > > > > > is illegal, > > > > > > both domestically and internationally and that America is better > > than > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > 321 See DIC Table: Unknown 1 (died in November 2002 in Afghanistan > > > > > > “Salt Pit” prison of hypothermia after being chained to the floor > > and > > > > > > left without blankets; official cause of death not released); > > Naseer > > > > > > (allegedly tortured to death by Army Special Forces soldiers in > > Mar. > > > > > > 2003; official investigation findings not released); al-Sumaidae > > > > > > (unarmed 21-year-old student allegedly killed in cold > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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