You think the present Iraqi government has greater "control" over the populace than Saddam Hussein did?
On Sep 11, 4:54 pm, Mark <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote: > Oh ??? what i said is incorrect ??? how many historical examples of just > this do you want in order to establish this pattern ?? > > do you have ANY proof of anything different...? Please offer said same here > and now. > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Yeah.......OK.......whatever you say, chief. > > > On Sep 11, 2:57 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > The lesson learned is simple..... count on the US for a knee-jerk > > > response to anything that will promote greater government control. > > > > On Sep 11, 11:37 am, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > This article is dissembling shit. It could have been written by > > > > Michael Moore. The deaths of children in Iraq because of starvation or > > > > lack of medicine is DIRECTLY the fault of Saddam Hussein. The > > > > embargoes on Iraq did not include food and medicine and, indeed, those > > > > items were specifically shipped there. Only to be stolen by Saddam and > > > > sold in the black market for money to support his military. Only a > > > > retarded jackass would think that Saddam cared one whit about the fate > > > > of his people. > > > > > On Sep 11, 1:04 pm, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote: > > > > > > The Causes, Aftermath and Lessons of 9/11By Anthony Gregory > > > > > Published 09/11/09 > > > > > America suffered its deadliest terrorist attack eight years ago, on > > September 11, 2001. Nearly three thousand people, mostly Americans, were > > murdered, and thousands more wounded. The great institution of American and > > global capitalism, the World Trade Center, was destroyed. > > > > > Americans agree that we should remember 9/11. The current president > > has declared it a "National Day of Service and Remembrance" on which we > > should honor community service. This has been criticized by many > > conservatives as "statist" politicization of that horrific day. Some might > > respond that it was politicized by the last president too. > > > > > Indeed, within 24 hours of the planes hitting the Twin Towers, many > > Americans mourned but also reacted quickly with their thoughts of the > > event's political implications. Many on the right said that the attack > > showed the need for a more aggressive foreign policy. Others on the left > > said that it was time to stop being critical of big government. Calls for > > restricting civil liberties could be heard before the Pentagon fire was > > extinguished, and they continue to this day. > > > > > If it is fair game for people to politicize 9/11 in this way, as an > > argument for more government and less liberty, people should also feel free > > to advance different conclusions about terrorism. We must never forget that > > day, and it is also important, if we want to prevent such attacks in the > > future, to understand what led up to the event and what has transpired > > since.Understanding the Atrocity > > > > > Why did it happen? One answer given was that the terrorists simply > > hated America for its freedom. Those who believed this tended to feel that > > war was the only answer -- war to punish the evildoers and war to rebuild > > foreign societies so they would be free and no longer resent us. Another > > answer given was that the terrorists, although murderous criminals, were > > exploiting genuine grievances that many people in Muslim countries had > > against U.S. foreign policy. > > > > > Osama bin Laden repeatedly stressed the major objections: The U.S. > > had been supporting apostate dictatorships in the Muslim world, given > > one-sided support to Israel, occupied holy land such as the Arabian > > Peninsula, and enforced brutal sanctions on the Iraqi people that had left > > hundreds of thousands of Muslims, mostly children, dead. > > > > > Americans are warned not to forget what happened eight years ago, but > > we must not assume history began on that date. Those in the Muslim world > > tend to have a much longer memory. > > > > > In 1953, the CIA helped to oust the once-democratically elected > > leader of Iran,a man who had been featured asTime Magazine's "Man of the > > Year" just a year before, and replaced him with the corrupt and brutal Shah, > > a dictator who ushered in a period of torture, terror and mass inflation. > > Twenty-six years later we saw the "blowback" -- a term the CIA uses to > > describe the unintended reaction from American policy abroad -- in the form > > of the Islamic Revolution. Iran fell under the grip of fundamentalists, but > > most of the nation would not rally against America for purely cultural > > reasons. What united them was resentment toward the U.S. meddling in their > > country. > > > > > Meanwhile, as part of the Cold War, the U.S. began supporting > > agitators in Afghanistan so as to incite a Soviet invasion and bring about > > an overstretch of the Soviet military. Although today most Americans think > > of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan at the time as purely defensive against > > Soviet belligerence, President Carter's National Security Adviser Zbigniew > > Brzezinski admitted this was far from the case ina 1998 interview:"According > > to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during > > 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec > > 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise > > Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive > > for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that > > very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that > > in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention." > > > > > These U.S.-allied Mujahideen in Afghanistan were championed as > > "freedom fighters," but many went on to form the basis of the Taliban and al > > Qaeda. The Taliban became one of the most brutal and backwards regimes on > > the planet, but as late asMay of 2001, the U.S. was sending tens of millions > > of dollars to the Taliban to finance its war on opium. > > > > > Throughout the 1980s, the fundamentalist Iranian regime, which had > > come about in reaction to the U.S.-installed Shah, was seen as the greatest > > threat in the region. Thus did the United States throw its support behind > > Saddam Hussein, who, along with his Baathist party, had been a > > U.S.-sponsored operative for decades in Iraq. An Iran-Iraq war ensued, > > wherein theU.S. sent weaponry, material support, money and intelligence to > > the Iraqi dictatorship. At the same time, the Reagan administration secretly > > sold weapons to Iran, as well. > > > > > In 1990, the U.S. went to war with Iraq after Saddam invaded Kuwait, > > althougha U.S. diplomat had indicated to himthat the U.S. would stay out of > > such a conflict. Propaganda about Kuwaiti babies being torn from their > > incubators, and an impending threat from Saddam to Saudi Arabia, got most of > > the American people on board. But it was a short war, and by 1992 the > > popular war was a faded memory as the recession and Perot took the > > presidential throne from the incumbent commander in chief. > > > > > At the end of the war, the U.S. had troops stationed in Saudi Arabia > > and, after destroying much of Iraq's sanitation infrastructure, > > implementedsanctionsto be enforced through the United Nations, that cut off > > the Iraqi people from getting food and medicine from the outside world. > > Throughout the 1990s, the U.S. perennially bombed Iraq to enforce "no-fly" > > zones in the name of protecting the Kurds. > > > > > In May of 1996, UN ambassador Madeline Albright, soon to be elevated > > to become Secretary of State, was asked on60 Minutesabout this the trade > > sanctions on Iraq.This exchangeechoed ominously throughout the Muslim > > world:Lesley Stahl: We have heard that a half million children have died. I > > mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the > > price worth it?Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but > > the price--we think the price is worth it. > > > > > Most Americans don't know about this exchange, or other grievances > > foreigners have against the U.S. empire, but the nonchalant way in which > > Albright weighed the lives of hundreds of thousands of children against the > > U.S. goal of undermining Saddam's government resonated far and wide. This > > dismissive attitude toward the foreigners affected by U.S. foreign policy > > still permeates American policy through and through. > > > > > It is such grievances that most directly led to 9/11. This is the > > conclusion ofMichael Scheuer, former head of the CIA bin Laden Unit.Robert > > Pape, who conducted the most comprehensive survey of suicide terrorist > > attacks from 1980 to 2003, also agrees that the major factor behind such > > terrorism, by far, is resistance to an occupying power. > > > > > This understanding of foreign animosity is completely consistent with > > the thoughts of candidateGeorge W. Bush, sparring in a presidential debate > > in October 2000, saying that foreigners resent U.S. intervention in their > > lands. "If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us," Bush said. "If > > we're a humble nation, but strong, they'll welcome us." > > > > > Candidate Al Gore was clearly much more rhetorically devoted to the > > U.S. intervening abroad:"Like it or not, we are now...the United States is > > now the natural leader of the world. All of the other countries are looking > > to us. Now just because we cannot be involved everywhere, and shouldn't be, > > doesn't mean that we should shy away from going in anywhere. And we have a > > fundamental choice to make. Are we going to step up to the plate as a > > nation, the way we did after World War II, the way that generation of heroes > > said, okay, the United States is going to be the leader -- and the world > > benefited tremendously from the courage that they showed in those post-war > > years."To which Bush replied,"I'm not so sure the role of the United States > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
