Hey,
I contacted the developper of XB PointStream specifically to ask him how
to plug it to a postgres DB.
It is no more an active project and he advised against it.
At the other hand, with a much better licence (FreeBSD), active dev, and
build in level Of Detail (LOD) feature (scene graph):
http://potree.org/
I asked the same question and it would be possible to plug it to db.
We only need to develop a LOD inside DB to to make it possible to use it
with huge database (I'm talking about 10's of billions at least in base,
and several millions in cache/browser). ( Here my gothub project doc,
the project is not clean enough to be used by others, but the slides
contains some images
:https://github.com/Remi-C/LOD_ordering_for_patches_of_points/tree/master/doc )
Current WebGL limit with most graphic card seems to be around 10^6
points, it is very small, hence the obligation to have LOD support to
have maybe 10 * 10^6 points in cache in LOD structure in browser, and
display only 10^6 points, but cleverly :
more points close to viewer camera and in front of it, few points when
far from viewer camera, zero point behind camera.
These are very old and effective computer graphics tricks.
Cheers,
Rémi-C
2013/12/17 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Hi Frank,
I've been watching this approach develop over the past few year.
Some intereing approaches to using the point based methods of
display that I've zeroed in on use feature that they describe as
Surfels and/or Splats. Just Google those two key words and you'll
see what I'm talking about.
http://graphics.ucsd.edu/~matthias/Papers/Surfels.pdf
One drawback to these approaches is that they are sort of a closed
system in that they concentrate on only displaying the point based
features. In the end, as a real world tool, I'll need to
incorporate into this type of visualizers, I means of mixing feature
types. Surface tins, CAD models, and Points. Having the points
reside in a DB will both help with the integration as well as allow
some processing of things to be accomplished on the fly in this
mixed feature viewer.
Bobb
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Frank Henze
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:10 PM
To: PostGIS Users Discussion
Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
I dont know, at which point the downsampling should take place.
An interesting solution for webbased visualization could be XB Point
Stream:
http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/XB_PointStream
Frank
Am 15.12.2013 00:45, schrieb Rémi Cura:
> I guess everybody has reached the same conclusion :
> using pointcloud is is possible to manage 100's of billions of points
> and retrieve quickly those of interest.
>
> Now most of the usage requiere severe downsampling, which isn't a
part
> of anything yet but may come (I'm working on adding this to
pointcloud).
> .
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rémi-C
>
>
> 2013/12/12 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
>
> Frank,
>
> I don't know about a group, or for that matter centering it
on just
> PostGIS, but I see 3D as the next big Mapping product line that
> people are going to be looking for. PostGIS is a piece in a
bigger
> puzzle. I've been researching different methods for storing and
> segmenting the point cloud data on the server side for a
while now
> and PostGIS has percolated up to near the top of the list.
>
> There is a big piece related in how to generalize data for 3D
> scaling in the browser, that's the biggest shortcoming I've
become
> aware of in order to make something run nicely in the
browser, I've
> also of late been forcing myself to think mobile, which has
it's own
> set of criteria as far as the browser goes.
>
> I would likely join the list of something call PostGIS 3d, but I
> don't know that there is enough interest for a whole community
> (yet), maybe it's better to stay ahead of the curve though.
>
>
> Bobb
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>] On Behalf Of Frank
Henze
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:17 PM
> To: PostGIS Users Discussion
> Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
>
> Hi all,
>
> briefly a few details to
http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/:
>
> - Projektauswahl: Baalbek and Palatin are static X3D
models (no
> PostGIS)
> - Projektauswahl: W3DS is dynamically generated from a
PostGIS 2.0 DB
> via a "GetScene"-request by Geoserver
>
> I think Baalbek is too large (too many triangles) and therefore
> possibly leads to crash. Palatin and W3DS should work.
>
> The 3D window is a standard WebGL window based on X3DOM. So it
> should run right stable.
>
> Once again my question:
> Is there an interest in a PostGIS 3D group?
>
> Frank
>
> Am 12.12.2013 16:55, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
> > Frank,
> >
> > Very nice. It froze up for me pretty quickly, I tried both FF
> and Chrome. Still looked good while it ran.
> >
> > This stability aspect is a big piece of being able to make
> something that folks will want to use. Data segregation will
be a
> big piece moving forward I think.
> >
> > Bobb
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>] On Behalf Of Frank
> > Henze
> > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 6:04 AM
> > To: PostGIS Users Discussion
> > Subject: Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >
> > Hi Bobb,
> > hi all,
> >
> > https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ looks great!
> >
> > We have similar requirements for a 3d WebGIS.
> > A first prototype you can find at:
> >
> > http://www2.htw-dresden.de/~s68071/3DWebGIS/
> >
> > For "Projektauswahl:" select "W3DS"
> >
> > and then select "Historische Gebäude" (Historical Buildings)
> >
> > If there is nothing to see, then press on the left side "Alles
> anzeigen"
> >
> > We use the community buildt Geoserver incl. Web 3D service +
> X3DOM + JS.
> >
> > Some of our problems:
> >
> > How to import 3D geometries into PostGIS?
> > Which formats and interfaces (CAD, X3D)?
> > Point clouds in PostGIS (also import of).
> >
> > Is there a 3D PostGIS interest-group?
> > If not, should one established?
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Am 11.12.2013 17:44, schrieb Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul):
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Nothing that far along. Did a couple of proofs of
concept so far,
> >> I've done a couple of presentations on the Visualizer
approach. We
> >> tried a couple of different things, x3Dom, allover'js
> >>
> >> You can see some of them here ( some of the pages take a
while to
> >> load the data in the background, be patient):
> >>
> >> https://hub.sharedgeo.org/apps/x3d/ (these will
generally need a
> >> webGL enabled browser)
> >>
> >> These are purely intended as a test of just how much data
could
> >> easily be squished into the browser before if blows, so you
> might experience
> >> some failures. Ideally the data coming into these would be
> segmented
> >> via a SQL call to PostGIS Pointcloud sources.
> >>
> >> The last two in the list are using some point clouds cut
from our
> >> recent data collect at 8pt per sq meter for the City (6
billion
> >> points in all), these are using about 300k points each
for example.
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>] *On Behalf Of *Rémi
> >> Cura
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:08 AM
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> I would be very interested to know any attempt to
visualize 3D point
> >> cloud from data base !
> >>
> >> We did the same but our solution is far from perfect.
> >>
> >> Bob, is you rporject public/open source, have you any
paper/doc
> about it ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Rémi-C
> >>
> >> 2013/12/11 Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>>
> >>
> >> Hmm,
> >>
> >> I'm working with the Minneapolis International Airport
(MSP) on a
> >> project, any chance that data is open/accessible enough
to play
> with?
> >> This could tie directly into a project I'm already
working on.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:14 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> Bob, all:
> >>
> >> I agree. I'll have to spend some time with pointcloud but
it DOES
> >> look very promising.
> >>
> >> Another application? Lidar. Pointed at the sky, not at the
> ground (we
> >> use 'em to determine cloud layers [ceiling] and sky cover at
> airports
> >> for aviation data...).
> >>
> >> Thanks, all!
> >>
> >> gerry
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
> >> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gerry,
> >>
> >> Remi's idea about using a point cloud may be spot on for
your use.
> >> It allows you to set a point cloud down to a revolution
if need be,
> >> which seems like what you are looking for.. If the data
becomes too
> >> massive for insertion into DB at real-time speeds, then
you could
> >> also separate this revolution into separate DB's as well,
you could
> >> separate a whole number of ways, by elevation, or
quadrant, or . . .
> >>
> >> I'm very interested in visualization possibilities with
something
> >> like this being available in a database. We're doing some
> similar db
> >> 3d visualization stuff on some rather dense point clouds.
Your data
> >> once available could use the same visualizer.
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 1:41 PM
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* Re: [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> At least preliminarily, I can post-process, so speed of
db adds
> isn't
> >> too troubling. Maintaining accurate representation of the
bin-volume
> >> data is, however, important.
> >>
> >> Typical rotation is 1-3 RPM, and a complete volume scan takes
> ~11 min
> >> in clear air (where you best see biologicals if so
inclined) or ~5
> >> min in one of the storm data collection modes. These are
for common
> >> WSR88D, stationary radars. SMARTR's and others we have
here that are
> >> mobile present a whole host of other options/data eval
and speed
> problems.
> >>
> >> Current radar data are nominally considered to have a
horizontal
> >> resolution of ~250 m, ignoring distortion or keyholing due to
> >> range.Typically 16 elevations are scanned, once or or
twice in storm
> >> mode and a few less elevations in clear air mode.
> >>
> >> Now, the interesting thing that's on the horizon is
Phased Array
> Radar.
> >> When that happens, more data, more resolution, and faster
updates.
> >>
> >> gerry
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)
> >> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gerry,
> >>
> >> Seems like the biggest hangup would be in adding the data
to the DB
> >> fast enough. How many points, per revolution, and what
is the
> >> frequency of a revolution (stationary Radar, correct,
although as I
> >> think about it, it could be mobile if needed, just need
to add
> in the
> >> radar location to each record)?
> >>
> >> Bobb
> >>
> >> *From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>] *On Behalf Of *Gerry
> >> Creager - NOAA Affiliate
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 10, 2013 10:52 AM
> >> *To:* PostGIS Users Discussion
> >> *Subject:* [postgis-users] Old question resurfacing
> >>
> >> I asked this years ago, and I think Paul was less than
pleased with
> >> me (:-), but:
> >>
> >> Has anyone, in the ensuing years looked at encoding radar
data
> into a
> >> postGIS database? We've a little idea that might benefit one
> project,
> >> and getting the radar data into a good geospatial format
would be
> >> beneficial.The data, of coure, would start out as
> radial-distance and
> >> intensity from the radar site, although we could
preprocess it
> by gridding.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Gerry
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gerry Creager
> >>
> >> NSSL/CIMMS
> >>
> >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
> >>
> >> That feed on their velocity;
> >>
> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> >>
> >> And so on to viscosity."
> >>
> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gerry Creager
> >>
> >> NSSL/CIMMS
> >>
> >> 405.325.6371 <tel:405.325.6371>
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
> >>
> >> That feed on their velocity;
> >>
> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> >>
> >> And so on to viscosity."
> >>
> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Gerry Creager
> >>
> >> NSSL/CIMMS
> >>
> >> 405.325.6371
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >> "Big whorls have little whorls,
> >>
> >> That feed on their velocity;
> >>
> >> And little whorls have lesser whorls,
> >>
> >> And so on to viscosity."
> >>
> >> Lewis Fry Richardson (1881-1953)
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> postgis-users mailing list
> >> [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > postgis-users mailing list
> > [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > postgis-users mailing list
> > [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]
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> > http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/postgis-users
> >
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> postgis-users mailing list
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>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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