powermail-discuss Digest #2613 - Friday, April 20, 2007
Re: PowerMail vs. Thunderbird
by "Tim Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): bug or feature ?
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Wake from sleep message checking fixed!
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): bug or feature ?
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Wake from sleep message checking fixed!
by "A-NO-NE Music" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Viewing winmail.dat files
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: bug or feature ?
by "Michael Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): bug or feature ?
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): bug or feature ?
by "computer artwork by subhash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: bug or feature ?
by "Rick Lecoat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Database
by "Derry Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): bug or feature ?
by "computer artwork by subhash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(3): bug or feature ?
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: bug or feature ?
by "Michael Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: bug or feature ?
by "Barbara Needham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): bug or feature ?
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subject: Re: PowerMail vs. Thunderbird
From: "Tim Hodgson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:34:23 +0100
On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 4:59 pm -0700, Barbara Needham wrote:
>I prefer text e-mails so that is another factor with me pro PowerMail.
I don't think any of the people asking for better HTML support are
saying they _prefer_ HTML mail; simply that they have to live with
receiving it.
--
TimH
PowerMail 5.5.2 (build 4475) | OS X 10.4.8 | PowerBook FW/500 | 1GB RAM
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Subject: Re(2): bug or feature ?
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:46:35 -0400
Michael Lewis wrote:
>Why should I care if my email program can print HTML as long as
>one click takes me to a browser that does?
PowerMail pretends to print HTML email properly, and does not warn users
that it does not. I am not complaining that PM does not print HTML. I am
complaining that PowerMail appears to be able to print HTML email, but
can't do it right.
Printing is a basic feature. In non-beta software (email or not) I
expect it to work properly.
You should care because if you are like many people, your email is an
important part of your life. If CTM does not consider such a basic
feature worth fixing, don't you worry about how CTM will deal with less
obvious but perhaps more consequential problems?
- Winston
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Subject: Wake from sleep message checking fixed!
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:52:08 -0400
After my upgrade from Mac OS 10.3.9 to 10.4.9 PowerMail now waits until
my wireless connection is re-established before it checks for new mail.
No more error messages because PM tries to check mail before AirPort was
up. (PowerMail 5.5.3)
I don't know whether to thank CTM, Apple or both, but thanks!
- Winston
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): bug or feature ?
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:58:52 -0400
Wayne Brissette wrote:
>And as an old timer myself. I'm just as tired of people trying to make
>PM an HTML email client. Having a text email client has so many
>advantages that I'm not sure where to begin. Probably the two most
>important are that there is no way of faking people out and trying to
>make it seem like the link they are clicking on belongs to one place
>when it actually goes somewhere else. The other major advantage is it's
>hard to embed any type of virus code except as an attachment.
>
>I think the bottom line is no matter what path is chosen nobody is ever
>100% happy.
>
>As for the future of PM, who knows. People have written this company and
>product off for years, yet it still lives on.
>
>Wayne
Please note that I am not asking for PowerMail to become an HTML-based
program. I just want it to print the way one expects.
I agree with you on the security issues. On web browsers I keep the
Status Bar active. Then when I put the cursor on a link it shows me
where the link goes before I click.
- Winston
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Wake from sleep message checking fixed!
From: "A-NO-NE Music" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:04:30 -0400
Winston Weinmann / 2007/04/19 / 02:52 PM wrote:
>After my upgrade from Mac OS 10.3.9 to 10.4.9 PowerMail now waits until
>my wireless connection is re-established before it checks for new mail.
>No more error messages because PM tries to check mail before AirPort was
>up. (PowerMail 5.5.3)
Really?!
My AlBook goes with me everywhere. If I closed the lid right before PM
start to check but not yet checking, next time when I open the lid in a
different location, PM start to check before AirPort connection was
established, and I get beep chorus greetings 18 times :-(
So, I always wait to close the lid until PM finish checking. If I close
it right after checking, that means I have 2 min to get next connection
established in the new location.
--
- Hiro
Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
<http://a-no-ne.com> <http://anonemusic.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Viewing winmail.dat files
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:05:38 -0400
I've had trouble with the occasional email coming as a winmail.dat
attachment, which my Mac (i.e. PowerMail) can't read. I recently ran
across a program which can open them, "TNEF's Enough". From the ReadMe:
>TNEF's Enough allows Macs to read and extract files from Microsoft TNEF
>stream files. The files are usually received by SMTP based e-mail
>programs from Microsoft Exchange and Microsoft Outlook users. The SMTP
>based e-mail program will usually either receive a MIME attachment named
>"winmail.dat" or a MIME attachment with the type "application/ms-tnef."
<http://www.joshjacob.com/macdev/tnef/>
Free, but the author asks for a donation if it's useful.
While I'm wishing, could PowerMail deal with winmail.dat files? :-)
- Winston
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: bug or feature ?
From: "Michael Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:28:29 -0400
Winston Weinmann sez:
>You should care because if you are like many people, your email is an
>important part of your life. If CTM does not consider such a basic
>feature worth fixing, don't you worry about how CTM will deal with less
>obvious but perhaps more consequential problems?
But I don't care. I said I print through my web browser when I want to
print an HTML mail. And that is very rarely. No, I don't have four kids
or whatever you said requires so much printing of HTML mail. I just
deleted about 10 messages from my dad that is just forwarded humor spam
with stupid jokes and silly gif images throughout it. All the rest of
the HTML mail I've gotten to day went straight to the Spam trash thanks
to Spamsieve. I'm not you. PM does what I want, and the printing issue
is easy: click the button to view in a web browser. Done.
And PM has fixed many issues, some I wanted fixed and several I hadn't
thought of or used. I don't have a problem with CTM dealing with issues.
Obviously you do. That's fine, too. I'm not saying you're wrong or need
to shut up or anything. I'm just providing my experience and a possible
workaround if you really wish to continue using PM for whatever features
you do like while waiting for CTM to fix this one. (A clue: they rarely
say what they are working on. They aren't a large company. They may or
may not be working on the printing issue you mention...) OR you could
use a different email client, get the printing you like, but probably
end up with other tradeoffs. I haven't found an email client yet that I
didn't have to make tradeoffs in order to use. Like Wayne said, nothing
is ever 100% satisfactory to everyone.
--
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): bug or feature ?
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:45:32 -0400
Michael Lewis wrote:
>I'm just providing my experience and a possible
>workaround if you really wish to continue using PM for whatever features
>you do like while waiting for CTM to fix this one. (A clue: they rarely
>say what they are working on. They aren't a large company. They may or
>may not be working on the printing issue you mention...)
Which I appreciate. Thanks for the comment about CTM's not saying much
about future plans. Some companies like to list bugs ("known issues")
and note when they are being fixed, and others don't. Sometimes it is
useful to get a warning about existing problems. I can't find anything
about the HTML printing problem in the manual or the PM FAQs.
CTM - would you consider having a "known issues" list on your web site?
Thanks.
- Winston
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): bug or feature ?
From: "computer artwork by subhash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:48:36 +0200
[Michael Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 19.4.2007 um 15:28 Uhr:]
>But I don't care. I said I print through my web browser when I want to
>print an HTML mail. And that is very rarely.
Me too. Nothing could be more uninteresting for me. I do not print
mails. I rarely print at all.
lG
Subhash
--
Digitale Bildnerei von Subhash:
Retusche, Restauration, Compositing
>>>>>>> NEU: TOD AM KANAL <<<<<<<<<
http://www.subhash.at/foto/tod_am_kanal.php
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: bug or feature ?
From: "Rick Lecoat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:09:58 +0100
Hmm.
I've been following this thread for the last couple of days and I'm
surprised that many of the people contributing to it are taking a stance
that seems to be: "this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
to see that it should be a problem in yours". The implication would seem
to be that Winston is somehow being ridiculous in having a life and/or
workflow that DOES require that this function work as expected -- which
is of course entirely unfair to him and does something of a disservice
(IMHO) to the list as a whole.
I, for one, also rarely print emails; and, like many of you fine folk,
most of my HTML email goes in the trash. But that isn't the point. The
merits of HTML mail are not the issue here. How to get HTML mail onto
paper at such times as it becomes necessary *is*.
The browser workaround is okay in some instances but as Winston pointed
out early on, it does not include the mail headers (long or short) that
can be very important -- if I'm printing an email, the chances are that
I'll want the date, sender, etc, at the top of that sheet of paper.
Printing from the browser does not do.
No amount of semantic acrobatics re. email standards and protestation
that "this isn't a problem for me, why should it be for you?" will get
away from the fact that PM will display HTML mail but won't print it. I
do consider that a bug, or at the very least a flaw (the difference is
blurry at best). No one is asking for PM to compose HTML mail. But if it
will render it then it should be able to print what it renders. That to
me is a no brainer.
Is this something that I actually care about? No, because as I said, I
hardly ever print any sort of email. But Winston cares about it, and I
think that he is right to (and *has* every right to). He's not out of
line here.
I *do* care that a valid concern by a list member is being trivialised
on the grounds that his needs do not tally with the needs of others.
We're better than that.
Rick
--
G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.7 :: PM 5.5.2 :: 3 pane mode
Shark Attack: A Design Studio
<www.sharkattack.co.uk>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Database
From: "Derry Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:17:59 +0100
I'm getting a message when opening Powermail.
"Database is not the expected format"
Any ideas?
Cheers
--
Derry Thompson
g l o d e r w o r k s | Design - Hosting - Programming
<http://www.gloderworks.com>
+ 44 (0) 1562 631430 t + 44 (0) 7976 802487 m
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): bug or feature ?
From: "computer artwork by subhash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:25:44 +0200
[Rick Lecoat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 20.4.2007 um 12:09 Uhr:]
>"this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
>to see that it should be a problem in yours".
I only wanted to tell that this is not a self evident problem. Winston
was surprised that so few people cared about this bug. I do not care at
all. That *he* wants to print I noticed. There was given a possibility
to him that is not perfect. Well, let's see what ctm says ...
--
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Barrierearmes WebDesign von Subhash
http://www.subhash.at/webdesign/
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(3): bug or feature ?
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:52:39 -0400
Rick -
Thanks for your words of support.
While I do find the printing problem annoying, I am surprised that
people who like PowerMail don't think that a significant flaw (bug) in
the program, which minimally affects them, is important.
Significant flaws hurt sales of software. Existing users should care
about new sales, as that funds further development.
Saying you don't care about development does not work. Apple just moved
to Intel processors. Should PowerMail not be updated for changes like
this? If so, PM becomes Claris Emailer. Would you use PowerMail if it
only ran in Classic?
computer artwork by subhash wrote:
>I only wanted to tell that this is not a self evident problem.
Yes, it is. A non-self evident problem would not be obvious (by
definition). Very few PM users will have /never/ printed an HTML email.
The HTML printing problem is pretty obvious.
I do not mind that you or others don't need this bug fixed. As I said
before, CTM should fix those things they feel are most important to
their users. But I stand by my comments that bugs like this reflect
poorly on the developers, and have no place in non-beta Mac software.
- Winston
computer artwork by subhash wrote:
>[Rick Lecoat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 20.4.2007 um
12:09 Uhr:]
>
>>"this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
>>to see that it should be a problem in yours".
>
>I only wanted to tell that this is not a self evident problem. Winston
>was surprised that so few people cared about this bug. I do not care at
>all. That *he* wants to print I noticed. There was given a possibility
>to him that is not perfect. Well, let's see what ctm says ...
>
>--
>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Barrierearmes WebDesign von Subhash
> http://www.subhash.at/webdesign/
>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: bug or feature ?
From: "Michael Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:43:22 -0400
Rick Lecoat sez:
>"this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
>to see that it should be a problem in yours".
That is not my stance at all. However, if a majority of the customers do
not have an issue, then that probably makes it a lower priority issue
for a small company like CTM that must make its decisions and apply its
human resources well.
--
Michael Lewis
Off Balance Productions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.offbalance.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: bug or feature ?
From: "Barbara Needham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:46:04 -0700
Rick Lecoat on 4/20/07 said
>Is this something that I actually care about? No, because as I said, I
>hardly ever print any sort of email. But Winston cares about it, and I
>think that he is right to (and *has* every right to). He's not out of
>line here.
>
>I *do* care that a valid concern by a list member is being trivialised
>on the grounds that his needs do not tally with the needs of others.
>We're better than that.
Thanks for pointing this out Rick.
Over the last days I actually came to agree with Winston in the html
printing request.
This is how I came to a change: A lot of times when I print I like to
print to PDF so that I have a copy of something that is platform
independent. Printing with no dialog box does not allow this. If
attempting to print from the html rendering produced a message "printing
from this screen is not possible at this time" I think that would be
acceptable. It is the behavior that ACTS like a normal printing process
is going on when it actually isn't that seems to be bothersome.
As far as having the headers, I don't see them when the html is rendered
so I'm not sure how they could be printed. It is true that if everyone
ceased using html or used properly formatted html with its text component
we wouldn't have this problem.. but I think that not happening is why CTM
was willing to using the Safari rendering engine in the first place to
display this type of mail.
Not that I'm going to stop using PowerMail, I've tried it and couldn't
stand not using it...
--
Barbara Needham
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): bug or feature ?
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:49:06 -0400
Someone said CTM added HTML viewing by customer request. If so many
people wanted HTML viewing, then it makes sense that they might want
printing too. CTM implemented printing of HTML documents, but it does
not work properly. Do we laud CTM for putting in flawed printing
features, or wonder why they did not get it right?
I echo Barbara Needham's comment on printing to PDFs. I do this all the
time (although more commonly for things on web pages).
Has anyone else noticed that mail composed in HTML sometimes is hard to
read when rendered in text because the layout does not work well in text?
- Winston
Michael Lewis wrote:
>Rick Lecoat sez:
>
>>"this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
>>to see that it should be a problem in yours".
>
>That is not my stance at all. However, if a majority of the customers do
>not have an issue, then that probably makes it a lower priority issue
>for a small company like CTM that must make its decisions and apply its
>human resources well.
>
>--
>Michael Lewis
>Off Balance Productions
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.offbalance.com
>
>
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End of powermail-discuss Digest
