powermail-discuss Digest #2696 - Saturday, September 22, 2007
Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
by "Barbara Needham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
by "Tim Lapin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Powermail support (Was: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Un
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
by "Barbara Needham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): Powermail support (Was: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
From: "Barbara Needham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:53:18 -0700
Tim Lapin on 9/21/07 said
>Barbara Needham wrote:
>> Michael J. Hußmann on 9/21/07 said
>>
>>> Jeremy Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>>>
>...
>
>>> my message database is still
>>> under 200 MB. As you can guess, I am not at all concerned about the 2 GB
>>> limit, as I am not likely to ever hit that 2 GB limit during my
>>> lifetime. Maybe that's a fairly typical user experience?
>>
>> I have 700 MB since 2002 but that is after compacting the database. And I
>> do not get huge volumes of e-mail.
>
>I guess what we need to understand here is people's conception of "huge
>volumes". Some of us will never approach 2 GB, while others seem to be
>flirting with it on almost a daily basis.
>
>So, is a huge volume of mail:
>
>-- more than "X" messages a day?
>
>-- more than "Y" MB a day of email, excluding attachments (which aren't
>part of the database)?
>
>-- something else?
>
>Clearly, an email package with strengths in one place (eg searching) and
>weaknesses in other places (eg smaller database sizes) needs to be put
>into the context of the expected use.
Well, huge is anything that makes your database get "too big.'
And I do kind of disagree with your last point, since the strength of the
searching is the very thing that makes me want to keep all my mail
hanging around. I've been able to search easily and quote exact answers
from previous e-mails when necessary or useful. If I couldn't search it
all I might not bother keeping it!
--
Barbara Needham
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
From: "Tim Lapin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:32:42 -0400
Barbara Needham wrote:
> Tim Lapin on 9/21/07 said
>
>> Clearly, an email package with strengths in one place (eg searching) and
>> weaknesses in other places (eg smaller database sizes) needs to be put
>> into the context of the expected use.
>
> Well, huge is anything that makes your database get "too big.'
> And I do kind of disagree with your last point, since the strength of the
> searching is the very thing that makes me want to keep all my mail
> hanging around. I've been able to search easily and quote exact answers
> from previous e-mails when necessary or useful. If I couldn't search it
> all I might not bother keeping it!
I'm not sure as to which part you disagree. I never said you'd have to
give up searching. I'm saying that one of PM's noted strengths is its
searching capabilities. On the other hand, having a limit of only 2 GB
is clearly hurting some users. Most other apps offer at least 4 GB,
while a few others have a limit of 32 GB and at least one, Eudora,
seemingly has NO limit owing to its structure.
So, in that context, a limit of 2 GB is "small" and therefore a weakness
for some here. Furthermore, it seems to outweigh all the advantages
that PM provides for these users. Or, to flip your sentence on its
head: "If I can't keep ALL my messages at the ready to be searched, I
might not bother keeping it!"
As to your statement of "too big", again, I'm asking you to put some
numbers there. Specifically what is "too big"?. I'll add one more to
my initial list:
-- the email client starts thrashing in its attempt to manage its
database once it reaches "Z" MB in size. Not sure how that applies in a
UNIX environment but I mention it anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Powermail support (Was: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is
Unread)
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:12:26 +0900
Winston,
you are wining here around on the list since you subscribed.
Understand Powermail is a textmailer, so if you want to have html use
something else.
Powermail is not a 1200$ product, it is shareware and in this price-range.
Recently I wrote a E-Mail implementation for a database and I tested all
mail-clients available for the Mac and all I can say is, PowerMail rocks
comparing to others and it was the most stable mailclient in my tests.
So what do you want from Jérôme, to write on the list something like mea
culpa, I'm sorry I wrote such a bad software?
Come on grow up!
Matthias
Am/On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:42:03 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
>Matthias -
>
>With all due respect, I think it is more accurate to say that the flaws
>which PowerMail has (such as not being able to print HTML mail) do not
>bother /you/. That does not mean PowerMail does not have flaws, nor does
>it excuse CTM for not acknowledging or addressing those flaws if they
>affect other users.
>
>Regards,
>
>- Winston
>
>
>Matthias Schmidt wrote:
>
>>Bernd,
>>
>>Am/On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:07:57 +0200 schrieb/wrote Bernd Fröhlich:
>>
>>>Winston Weinmann schrieb:
>>>> While I love PowerMail, it has some bugs in it that are like beta level
>>>> software. CTM should be embarrassed, and probably is.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That pretty much confirms my suspicion. I was thinking about using
>>>PowerMail but wanted to see how it is supported first, so I subscribed
>>>to this list.
>>>From their website I already had the impression that it is not receiving
>>>much attention and this thread confirms it.
>>
>>not true period.
>>I'm using PM since years without any flaw.
>>
>>Thanks and all the best
>>
>>Matthias
>>
>>
>
>
>
Thanks and all the best
Matthias
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:26:06 +0900
How many mails do keep?
How do you get so many mails?
I receive around 200 to 300 mails per day.
But most of the mails are from technical lists.
All mails from lists, which don't contain important information, I
delete at once - they are still on some webarchives -
In the beginning of the year, I also delete old technical information,
because it's not relevant anymore.
So without compacting I have in the moment 1.1 gig of maildatabase and I
use PM since the early days of OS 10.0.
OK, once in a while I compact the mail database and then it shrinks to
700 or 800 MB.
When I switched I also imported my old Eudora database, so I still have
the first mails sent by my wife :-)
It would be good, if a new version of PM removes this database limit, on
the other hand, there are enough workarounds to this limit.
And trashing irrelevant or outdated information is the first thing you
can do to make your database "slimmer" ;-)
best
Matthias
Am/On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:32:42 -0400 schrieb/wrote Tim Lapin:
>Barbara Needham wrote:
>> Tim Lapin on 9/21/07 said
>>
>
>>> Clearly, an email package with strengths in one place (eg searching) and
>>> weaknesses in other places (eg smaller database sizes) needs to be put
>>> into the context of the expected use.
>>
>> Well, huge is anything that makes your database get "too big.'
>> And I do kind of disagree with your last point, since the strength of the
>> searching is the very thing that makes me want to keep all my mail
>> hanging around. I've been able to search easily and quote exact answers
>> from previous e-mails when necessary or useful. If I couldn't search it
>> all I might not bother keeping it!
>
>I'm not sure as to which part you disagree. I never said you'd have to
>give up searching. I'm saying that one of PM's noted strengths is its
>searching capabilities. On the other hand, having a limit of only 2 GB
>is clearly hurting some users. Most other apps offer at least 4 GB,
>while a few others have a limit of 32 GB and at least one, Eudora,
>seemingly has NO limit owing to its structure.
>
>So, in that context, a limit of 2 GB is "small" and therefore a weakness
>for some here. Furthermore, it seems to outweigh all the advantages
>that PM provides for these users. Or, to flip your sentence on its
>head: "If I can't keep ALL my messages at the ready to be searched, I
>might not bother keeping it!"
>
>As to your statement of "too big", again, I'm asking you to put some
>numbers there. Specifically what is "too big"?. I'll add one more to
>my initial list:
>
>-- the email client starts thrashing in its attempt to manage its
>database once it reaches "Z" MB in size. Not sure how that applies in a
>UNIX environment but I mention it anyway.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:10:56 -0400
Jérôme -
Thank you for your work around. I will admit, however, that I do not
fully follow the method for changes using Text Wrangler. What do these mean:
>Search For: [x] Use Grep
>[x] Muti-File Search
(maybe this would be clear if I had a copy of Text Wrangler)?
Can other text editors be used? Or is the "multi-file search" that Text
Wrangler can do unique (presumably necessary to do a batch change on all
the files at once)?
Second, does Mail /export/ Read/Unread status?
You say Mail ignores Read/Unread status when importing - is this why
PowerMail does not appear to export Read/Unread status for Mail? What
about the other formats? (Eudora, Unix, Tab Text, etc.) Why doesn't
PowerMail export Read/Unread status for these?
Thanks.
- Winston Weinmann
PowerMail Engineering wrote:
>Winston Weinmann wrote:
>
>>In every case PowerMail had this for both messages:
>> Status: U
>
>The "status" header is not a standard one (it is not specified in RFC
>2822). I suppose it is used to indicate the status of the message on the
>server. It is not set by PowerMail. And mail seems to ignore it when
>importing.
>
>PowerMail can preserve the status (amongst other things) when exporting
>using the PowerMail Exchange format, but Mail does not import from this
>format.
>
>There is a workaround, but it requires using TextWrangler:
>
>- select all the folders and subfolders you want to export in PowerMail
>- export "the selected mail folder" (do NOT export "your entire mail
>database" as Mail won't import that)
>- export them to the "PowerMail Exchange" format (including attachments
>if you want)
>- in TextWrangler, perform a find and replace regular expression:
> Search For: [x] Use Grep
> PowerMail Exchange 3\.0\r
> Replace With: (leave an empty string here)
>
> [x] Muti-File Search
> Select the folder containing the exported mailboxes, then perform
>"replace all" and "save to disk".
>- perform another find and replace all regular expression on the same folder:
> Search For: [x] Use Grep
> ^PMFlags : \d+ \d+ \d+ (\d+) .*$
> Replace With:
> X-PM-Status: \1
>- in Mail, import from "Other" and select the folder
>- create a Mail rule:
> If [any] of
> [X-PM-Status] [Does not contain] [7]
> (note that you must edit the header list to add [X-PM-Status])
> Perform:
> [Mark as read]
>- select all the imported mailboxes
>- select all the messages
>- apply rules from the Message menu
>
>
>Jérôme - CTM Engineering
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> "FABULOUS PRODUCT ! Wonderful ! A real Spotlight Killer !
> I'm now able to locate content in documents that I KNEW was there but
> Spotlight couldn't find. FoxTrot Personal Search is far more efficient
> and displays a preview of the file when you hiighlight it."
> Janie Angus, Nevada
>
> Download a demo version from www.foxtrot.ch
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail is Unread
From: "Barbara Needham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:30:32 -0700
Winston Weinmann on 9/21/07 said
>Jérôme -
>
>Thank you for your work around. I will admit, however, that I do not
>fully follow the method for changes using Text Wrangler. What do these mean:
>>Search For: [x] Use Grep
>
>>[x] Muti-File Search
>(maybe this would be clear if I had a copy of Text Wrangler)?
>
>Can other text editors be used? Or is the "multi-file search" that Text
>Wrangler can do unique (presumably necessary to do a batch change on all
>the files at once)?
It would be clear with a copy of text wrangler. [still free I think]
Probably with BBEdit also [not free]
Both produced by Bare Bones Software.
Other text editors MAY be able to do it but you've got to be careful they
are plain text editors, not rich text.
--
Barbara Needham
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): Powermail support (Was: Re: Exporting from PowerMail - all mail
is Unread)
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:04:21 -0400
Matthias -
I think you have missed my point. I also think you have overlooked at
least an occasional attempt to be helpful.
As to html, I am not asking for anything new. I am asking for an
existing feature to work as expected (printing).
How many other Mac programs do you know of which can't print things they
can display, forcing you to use another program as a workaround? In any
other software most users would be up in arms about a basic feature like
printing not working properly. I am merely pointing that out. I would
not expect freeware to have this flaw. If that is whining, so be it.
This does not mean PowerMail does not "rock" in lots of other areas. But
would you expect a Mercedes 500 SL to have steel wheels or lack ABS?
- Winston
Matthias Schmidt wrote:
>Winston,
>
>you are wining here around on the list since you subscribed.
>Understand Powermail is a textmailer, so if you want to have html use
>something else.
>Powermail is not a 1200$ product, it is shareware and in this price-range.
>Recently I wrote a E-Mail implementation for a database and I tested all
>mail-clients available for the Mac and all I can say is, PowerMail rocks
>comparing to others and it was the most stable mailclient in my tests.
>So what do you want from Jérôme, to write on the list something like mea
>culpa, I'm sorry I wrote such a bad software?
>Come on grow up!
>Matthias
>
>Am/On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:42:03 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
>
>>Matthias -
>>
>>With all due respect, I think it is more accurate to say that the flaws
>>which PowerMail has (such as not being able to print HTML mail) do not
>>bother /you/. That does not mean PowerMail does not have flaws, nor does
>>it excuse CTM for not acknowledging or addressing those flaws if they
>>affect other users.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>- Winston
>>
>>
>>Matthias Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>>Bernd,
>>>
>>>Am/On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:07:57 +0200 schrieb/wrote Bernd Fröhlich:
>>>
>>>>Winston Weinmann schrieb:
>>>>> While I love PowerMail, it has some bugs in it that are like beta level
>>>>> software. CTM should be embarrassed, and probably is.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That pretty much confirms my suspicion. I was thinking about using
>>>>PowerMail but wanted to see how it is supported first, so I subscribed
>>>>to this list.
>>>>From their website I already had the impression that it is not receiving
>>>>much attention and this thread confirms it.
>>>
>>>not true period.
>>>I'm using PM since years without any flaw.
>>>
>>>Thanks and all the best
>>>
>>>Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Thanks and all the best
>
>Matthias
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of powermail-discuss Digest
