powermail-discuss Digest #2733 - Tuesday, November 13, 2007
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "Richard Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re(2): Time Machine and Powermail
by "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine discussion.
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "Tim Lapin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "PowerMail Engineering" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "Richard Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail & SuperDuper (Quit PowerMail & save open m
by "Dave N" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "Charles Watts-Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine and Powermail
by "Rick Lecoat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine discussion.
by "Jeremy Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine discussion.
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine discussion.
by "Jeremy Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Time Machine discussion.
by "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "Richard Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:22:39 -0800
Lecoat wrote:
>Which rather brings us back, full circle, to the point I made a couple
>of weeks ago: that I find an automated and regular backup strategy is
>made difficult by Powermail,
I respectfully disagree.
First, my experience with SuperDuper is different from yours. It
automatically backs up my disk drive while PowerMail is running. I have
no problems restoring my mail.
Second, your discomfort was amplified by the introduction of Time
Machine, not by PowerMail. Time Machine is an application designed to
eat up your disk space quickly. It continually makes copy after copy of
very large files such as FileMaker solutions, Final Cut Pro render
files, mail databases, etc.
There are many files on our computers that are large, change
incrementally, and cause Time Machine to create a whole new
multimegabyte copy. If you change a phone number in a FileMaker contacts
file, the entire 1GB file will be copied yet again by Time Machine.
Should FileMaker split up my record entries into separate files?
I could be wrong, but in my opinion, this is an Apple issue.
RH
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re(2): Time Machine and Powermail
From: "Winston Weinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:03:26 -0500
My understanding is that Apple is encouraging software developers to
find ways to break changes to large databases into smaller chunks.
There is an inherent problem with backing up large files which have
incremental changes. In order to have a backup you do have to copy the
entire file. The question then arises, how often and how far back should
the backups go. Users have this problem regardless of what backup system
they use.
Is your goal to be able to re-start work immediately at the same point
after a hard drive crash, or to be able to retrieve a copy of a file
which you deleted and then found you need? Or do you want a really
simple way to make sure that anything you do on your computer, at any
time, is always backed up?
Time Machine is geared to keep a constant backup and to let you go back
some distance, and is set up to make that easy by fully automating
things. This approach will work well for some people and not well for others.
I suspect TM will work well for the "average" Mac user who needs photos,
iTunes, Word and Excel documents, Address Book and Apple Mail backed up.
But (as I understand it) Time Machine is not set up to let you just
reboot from the backup drive and be back in business immediately if your
main drive fails.
I have not tried Time Machine yet, but I do have some experience with
Apple Backup (tied to a Dot Mac account). Its main weakness is that once
you fill the backup disk the only practical way to gain more space is to
reformat the disk and start over again. You can't specify when certain
file or folder backups "roll off". (Backup has other issues too.) Big
files make this problem show up sooner.
- Winston
Richard Hart wrote:
>Lecoat wrote:
>
>>Which rather brings us back, full circle, to the point I made a couple
>>of weeks ago: that I find an automated and regular backup strategy is
>>made difficult by Powermail,
>
>I respectfully disagree.
>
>First, my experience with SuperDuper is different from yours. It
>automatically backs up my disk drive while PowerMail is running. I have
>no problems restoring my mail.
>
>Second, your discomfort was amplified by the introduction of Time
>Machine, not by PowerMail. Time Machine is an application designed to
>eat up your disk space quickly. It continually makes copy after copy of
>very large files such as FileMaker solutions, Final Cut Pro render
>files, mail databases, etc.
>
>There are many files on our computers that are large, change
>incrementally, and cause Time Machine to create a whole new
>multimegabyte copy. If you change a phone number in a FileMaker contacts
>file, the entire 1GB file will be copied yet again by Time Machine.
>Should FileMaker split up my record entries into separate files?
>
>I could be wrong, but in my opinion, this is an Apple issue.
>
>RH
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine discussion.
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:34:44 +0100
Jeremy Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I *really* wish PowerMail would follow other email programs in splitting
> its database into separate databases for each email folder:
I'm not sure I'd agree. I suppose that the internal handling of mails is
much simpler and faster if every mail resides within a single database.
> 1. This would solve the problem of the 2 GB limit. Currently, I have to
> compact my database every two to three weeks. Eventually (perhaps within
> the next year) I will have to switch to a different email client.
After more than seven years of using PowerMail, it appears that I'm not
likely to hit the 2 GB within the next decade at least, but maybe I am
an exception. Anyway, even if the mail database was split into several
databases, you could still run against the 2 GB limit. Wouldn't lifting
the 2 GB limit be a more straight-forward remedy?
> 2. Backing up a single database that is nearly 2 GB in size, whether
> it's done hourly with Time Machine or daily with Retrospect (or another
> backup program), is wasteful of backup time and resources.
With a couple of databases, it would be just the same -- unless some
folders were rarely used and thus wouldn't need to be saved with each
backup. Unfortunately, folders whose content rarely changes typically
contain a relatively small number of mails (for just that reason), so
even when these folders weren't included in every backup, the disk space
saved would be negligible. With my setup, most folders receive mails all
the time, so it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway. However, the
problem Time Machine has with big files that are frequently changed is a
general one, and not just for database files; virtual volumes for
example are suffering from the same problem. Even Apple's Aperture is
affected. This problem isn't likely to go away, so I would say it is up
to Apple to provide a solution. Maybe Apple hadn't thought of this when
designing Time Machine, but eventually, they will have to.
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "Tim Lapin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:36:08 -0500
Richard Hart wrote:
> Lecoat wrote:
>
>> Which rather brings us back, full circle, to the point I made a couple
>> of weeks ago: that I find an automated and regular backup strategy is
>> made difficult by Powermail,
>
> I respectfully disagree.
>
> First, my experience with SuperDuper is different from yours. It
> automatically backs up my disk drive while PowerMail is running. I have
> no problems restoring my mail.
>
I can't speak for Leopard but I can tell you that Silver Keeper has
never given PowerMail a problem when backing while PM is active over the
many years I've used it. I tried to minimize those occurrences but when
it did happen that PM was active during a backup, no ill effects were
ever observed.
As I am now on a single disk iMac (running Tiger), I am not backing up
anything. In a few months, I will be buying an external drive and maybe
Leopard too. At that point, some backup system will be put in place.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:42:48 +0100
MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> When using a name containing an apostrophe in the name part ( I have yet
> to see such an email address) then the displayed name will be shortened
> to the letters prior to the letter with an apostrophe. So "Camilla
> Berndzén" will be shortened to "Camilla Berndz" for example.
> Worse is that if you type "Berndzén" as in my example with the previous
> mentioned data in the PM adressbook, then nothing is found if you get to
> the letter with the apostrophe. If you only type "Bernd" you do find the
> person. This could easily be overlooked if the user unknowingly types fast.
>
> Further comment for the list:
> I have been and continue to be a bit surprised with how badly PowerMail
> handles umlauts (å, ä, ö, ü) and apostrophes (á, é, à, è, í, ì and so
> on), especially considering CTM is a swiss outfit and several of the
> languages spoken in Switzerland do make use of both umlauts or apostrophes.
You are really talking about accented letters here, not apostrophes. "á"
is a single character, not an "a" and an apostrophe. But anyway, I'm not
seeing any of this in PowerMail. So far, I've experienced no problems
with names containing accented characters, umlauted characters, or other
characters outside the ASCII range (and my address book contains quite a
few of these).
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "PowerMail Engineering" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:29:10 +0100
Richard Hart wrote:
> First, my experience with SuperDuper is different from yours. It
> automatically backs up my disk drive while PowerMail is running. I have
> no problems restoring my mail.
Tim Lapin wrote:
>I can't speak for Leopard but I can tell you that Silver Keeper has
>never given PowerMail a problem when backing while PM is active over the
>many years I've used it. I tried to minimize those occurrences but when
>it did happen that PM was active during a backup, no ill effects were
>ever observed.
Doing a backup while PowerMail is running is better than no backup at
all, and it will *probably* not produce a corrupted backup as long as no
change to the database is made during the backup (ie, no scheduled
connection). But you should not rely exclusively on those backups; make
a clean backup at least from time to time, and don't override it before
a new clean backup has been made.
Jérôme - CTM Engineering
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 00:58:38 +0100
MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> When using a name containing an apostrophe in the name part ( I have yet
> to see such an email address)
And you will never see one, because accented letters (and all other
characters outside the ASCII character set, plus some ASCII characters)
are not allowed in mail addresses.
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:20:36 +0100
Michael J. Hußmann said:
>You are really talking about accented letters
Yes. Thanks for the correct term.
>So far, I've experienced no problems
>with names containing accented characters, umlauted characters, or other
>characters outside the ASCII range (and my address book contains quite a
>few of these).
Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
address bok, not Apple Address book:
Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and report how that works? What is the displayed name?
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:23:01 +0100
Michael J. Hußmann suggested:
>And you will never see one, because accented letters (and all other
>characters outside the ASCII character set, plus some ASCII characters)
>are not allowed in mail addresses.
Today it isn't. Never? I don't think so. There are umlauts in web URLs
now. At least under some top domains.
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:25:15 +0100
Richard Hart said:
>There are many files on our computers that are large, change
>incrementally,
I thought there were backup apps that actually could backup only the
data that was different in the file. But this process is costly CPU-wise?
Incremental backup?
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:32:20 +0100
PowerMail Engineering told us:
>Doing a backup while PowerMail is running is better than no backup at
>all, and it will *probably* not produce a corrupted backup as long as no
>change to the database is made during the backup (ie, no scheduled
>connection). But you should not rely exclusively on those backups; make
>a clean backup at least from time to time, and don't override it before
>a new clean backup has been made.
So a good script then would be one that turned off scheduled connections
_before_ backup and turned them on again _after_. Anyone have such a script?
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "Richard Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:54:21 -0800
Mikael wrote:
>I thought there were backup apps that actually could
>backup only the data that was different in the file.
Not that I'm aware of. Incremental backup is for FILES that have
changed, not data inside a file.
RH
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Matthias Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:25:33 +0900
Am/On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:20:36 +0100 schrieb/wrote MB:
>Michael J. Hußmann said:
>>You are really talking about accented letters
>Yes. Thanks for the correct term.
>
>>So far, I've experienced no problems
>>with names containing accented characters, umlauted characters, or other
>>characters outside the ASCII range (and my address book contains quite a
>>few of these).
>
>Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
>address bok, not Apple Address book:
>
>Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>and report how that works? What is the displayed name?
I have Jérôme in my address book ... no problem at all,
all the best
Matthias
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail & SuperDuper (Quit PowerMail & save
open messages)
From: "Dave N" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:25:06 -0800
The following applescript can be run by SuperDuper just before backup to
Quit PowerMail, and save any open messages.
Quit_PowerMail_If_Running_Save_Drafts.applescript
------------------------------------------------
set targetApp to "PowerMail"
tell application "System Events"
set processExists to exists process targetApp
end tell
if processExists is true then
tell application "PowerMail"
repeat with i from 1 to (count of windows)
try
if window i is modified then
close window i with saving
end if
end try
end repeat
quit
end tell
end if
------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps.
Best,
Dave Nathanson
Mac Medix
in reply to ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), Rick Lecoat's message of 6:32
AM, 11/12/07
>Superduper can run a script prior to backup that could deal with the
>shutting down of PM,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "Charles Watts-Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:46:01 +0100
Richard Hart wrote:
>> I thought there were backup apps that actually could
>> backup only the data that was different in the file.
>
> Not that I'm aware of. Incremental backup is for FILES that
> have changed, not data inside a file.
You might like to have a look at QRecall <http://www.qrecall.com> which
is almost at the end of beta testing. Among its features is:
> Captures Data, not Files· QRecall uses powerful data
> analysis to capture only the changes made to each file.
> Unlike file-based backup software, QRecall compares the data
> in every file to the data already in the archive and only
> stores the new data. When a log file, database, audio/video
> file, or graphics project is changed, often only a tiny
> fraction of the file contains new data. Traditional backup
> techniques duplicate the entire file, wasting gigabytes of
> disk space.
I've been using it for a few weeks now. There have been some minor
glitches which the author has corrected swiftly. Remember though that it
is beta software so perhaps safest not to commit to it entirely at this time.
-- Charles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:58:28 +0100
MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
> address bok, not Apple Address book:
>
> Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> and report how that works? What is the displayed name?
The displayed name is "Eva Holgén", just as it should be.
> Today it isn't. Never? I don't think so. There are umlauts in
> web URLs now. At least under some top domains.
Yes, the current standard might change some day. But as of today, only a
subset of ASCII characters are allowed, and if PowerMail doesn't accept
anything else, that's just correct behaviour. What good would it do you
if you could enter an address that must be wrong?
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine and Powermail
From: "Rick Lecoat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:03:38 +0000
On 12/11/07 (19:22) Richard said:
>I respectfully disagree.
>
>First, my experience with SuperDuper is different from yours. It
>automatically backs up my disk drive while PowerMail is running. I have
>no problems restoring my mail.
Fair enough, but this does go against the recommended practice, which is
to close down any database prior to backup. Maybe you've been lucky with
your data integrity, but I still prefer the safer option -- backups
being as important as they are.
Your other points I don't necessarily disagree with, but the fact
remains that I have to close down Powermail prior to making a backup (if
I wish to do so safely, as noted above) and that messes with my
workflow. Note that the issue of having multiple backups of the database
file is not my main concern (although I would prefer a better solution);
my workflow is the hot topic for me.
If powermail provided an option to retain the contents of the Recent
Mail Window between PM sessions then my backup problems would largely
evaporate. Smart Folders would also be a viable solution -- perhaps a
better one, in fact.
Without coming to a definitive conclusion about whose 'fault' it is, the
fact remains (for myself, if not for others) that using Powermail as my
email client makes it difficult to implement a rigorous backup strategy.
Rick
--
G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.9 :: PM 5.5.2 :: 3 pane mode
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine discussion.
From: "Jeremy Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:43:55 +0000
Michael J. Hußmann (12/11/07, 20:34) said:
>Anyway, even if the mail database was split into several databases, you
>could still run against the 2 GB limit.
Yes, and you could split a large folder into two smaller folders to deal
with this.
>Wouldn't lifting the 2 GB limit be a more straight-forward remedy?
Maybe, but PowerMail have said they're not going to do this. In any
case, it doesn't solve the backup problem.
>With a couple of databases, it would be just the same
Of course. I have many more than just a couple of folders.
>- unless some
>folders were rarely used and thus wouldn't need to be saved with each
>backup. Unfortunately, folders whose content rarely changes typically
>contain a relatively small number of mails (for just that reason), so
>even when these folders weren't included in every backup, the disk space
>saved would be negligible. With my setup, most folders receive mails all
>the time
Not all my folders receive emails every day. Additionally, I use
subfolders to archive mailing lists, so that "Carbon-Dev" (for example)
may contain emails sent in the current year along with subfolders for
emails from previous years - these folders are large and never receive
new emails. Having separate databases for each folder would make a big
difference to me.
As you said, you don't use email very heavily and your database is much
smaller than 2 GB. For those of us who have larger databases, the way
that PowerMail currently behaves is a problem.
Jeremy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:18:53 +0100
Michael J. Hußmann said:
>Yes, the current standard might change some day. But as of today, only a
>subset of ASCII characters are allowed, and if PowerMail doesn't accept
>anything else, that's just correct behaviour. What good would it do you
>if you could enter an address that must be wrong?
You're missing the obvious here. The part I have difficulties with is
NOT the actual mail address in itself, but the name part that come
BEFORE the mail address. In our example it's the first two words in "Eva
Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. The address is between brackets and we
are both in agreement what characters can be contained there. However
the name part is still an integral part of the header. I have had
several problems with accented and umlaut characters there.
In my experience importing messages with umlauts and accented characters
from Claris Emailer and other email clients that displays properly in
Emailer can be destroyed to gibberish, especially so in the header. And
typed accented characters in the native PowerMail addressbook doesn't
show up in the displayed name. This also extends to the header of sent
messages, so it's not just a cosmetic problem. Umlauts do work, however.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:19:49 +0100
Michael J. Hußmann said:
>MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>> Interesting. Can you try and put this fake address in your PowerMail
>> address bok, not Apple Address book:
>>
>> Eva Holgén <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> and report how that works? What is the displayed name?
>
>The displayed name is "Eva Holgén", just as it should be.
Here's something funny going on. If I paste "Holgén" from my message the
it does display properly. However, if I type it, the displayed name is
cut off the character before the accented one.
The accented characters do look exactly the same. i e "é". Actually, if
I type the accented characters and then cut the name containing it out
and paste it back, it does display! So that's a workaround. This is
still a bug however, so I'd like make sure other people do have the same
behaviour in their copies of PM.
Could you please try again, and this time *type* the accented characters?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine discussion.
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:29:00 +0100
Jeremy Hughes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> Anyway, even if the mail database was split into several databases, you
>> could still run against the 2 GB limit.
>
> Yes, and you could split a large folder into two smaller folders to deal
> with this.
Yes, you could, but it's an awkward solution. For example, I have set up
folders for the 15+ mailing lists I'm on. Some contain just a few
hundred of mails, the largest one nearly 12.000, but that's OK -- I
wouldn't want to arbitrarily divide these 12.000 mails into different
subfolders.
>> Wouldn't lifting the 2 GB limit be a more straight-forward remedy?
>
> Maybe, but PowerMail have said they're not going to do this.
"Not going to do this" as in "never ever"? I don't think so. CTM doesn't
seem to believe the 2 GB limit creates a serious issue for the
overwhelming majority of users, but when this limit should detract a
growing number of potential customers from using PowerMail, I am
convinced they would take the trouble of lifting this restriction, even
if it means converting a lot of code from 32 to 64 bits.
> In any case, it doesn't solve the backup problem.
Neither does the multiple database approach. But it's a different
problem anyway. The main issue with Time Machine backups is the risk of
corruption, but the ball is in Apple's court here. With Apple's own
Aperture being incompatible with Time Machine precisely because of the
risk of creating corruption, I think it's prudent to wait and see what
Apple's going to do about it.
> As you said, you don't use email very heavily and your database is much
> smaller than 2 GB. For those of us who have larger databases, the way
> that PowerMail currently behaves is a problem.
Until today, I would have said I do use email heavily; it's my main
means of communication in my job. I just don't keep that many mails,
even when I would keep a mail rather than deleting it when in doubt.
Also, I'm on digest mode on most of the more active mailing lists. I
really wonder how many users of PowerMail actually hit the 2 GB limit
regularly.
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:39:06 +0100
MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> You're missing the obvious here. The part I have difficulties with is
> NOT the actual mail address in itself, but the name part that come
> BEFORE the mail address.
I know; I just added my remark about accented characters in email
addresses because you had mentioned those as well in your message to
CTM. In my experience, PowerMail has no trouble whatsoever in dealing
with accented or umlauted characters in real names. It doesn't accept
those characters in an email addresses (as you mentioned), but that's
correct behaviour.
> The address is between brackets and we
> are both in agreement what characters can be contained there. However
> the name part is still an integral part of the header. I have had
> several problems with accented and umlaut characters there.
Yes, and I am unable to reproduce these problems with PowerMail 5.5.3.
And I never experienced an issue like this in the past, with previous
versions of PowerMail (which I've been using since 2000, migrating from
Claris Emailer).
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:46:28 +0100
MB ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Could you please try again, and this time *type* the accented characters?
Ah, I see! Now I get the same behaviour you are experiencing! So there's
a bug in the code accepting keyboard input in the address book. It works
just fine if I enter the name in the mail's address field directly. This
should narrow the issue down far enough for CTM to quickly fix it.
It appears I usually enter names and addresses into the address book
from the context menue (which doesn't have this issue, as does copy&paste).
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "Michael J. Hußmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:13:39 +0100
Michael J. Hußmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Ah, I see! Now I get the same behaviour you are experiencing! So there's
> a bug in the code accepting keyboard input in the address book. It works
> just fine if I enter the name in the mail's address field directly. This
> should narrow the issue down far enough for CTM to quickly fix it.
This appears to be a problem not with accented characters as such, but
with dead keys like "`", "´", or "~". CTM developers in Geneva wouldn't
experience this problem as they can type most of those accented
characters directly on their French keyboards, without resorting to dead keys.
- Michael
Michael J. Hußmann
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW (personal): http://michael-hussmann.de
WWW (professional): http://digicam-experts.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine discussion.
From: "Jeremy Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:16:19 +0000
Michael J. Hußmann (13/11/07, 13:29) said:
>>> Anyway, even if the mail database was split into several databases, you
>>> could still run against the 2 GB limit.
>>
>> Yes, and you could split a large folder into two smaller folders to deal
>> with this.
>
>Yes, you could, but it's an awkward solution.
Awkward for you perhaps. It would work well for me, as I explained in my
last email. None of my existing folders are anything like 2 GB in size.
>> Maybe, but PowerMail have said they're not going to do this.
>
>"Not going to do this" as in "never ever"? I don't think so.
CTM's "Official Pronouncement" (October last year) was: "In the process
of moving PowerMail to XCode and Intel, we discussed long and hard the
matter of maximum database size and have decided, for technical and
philosophical reasons, that the right thing to do was to keep the 2GB limit."
>> In any case, it doesn't solve the backup problem.
>
>Neither does the multiple database approach.
Yes it does. The problem is that my email database is nearly 2 GB in
size, and the entire database is backed up every day. If I was using
Time Machine (I'm not), it would be backing this up every hour. If
PowerMail followed other email clients in having a separate email
database for each folder, all that would need to be backed up would be
the folders that received new emails in the last day (or hour in the
case of TM). This excludes the largest folders, which are archives of
previous years' emails.
>I really wonder how many users of PowerMail actually hit the 2 GB limit
regularly.
A shrinking number, because we are (or have or will be) switching to
different email clients. PowerMail doesn't work if you have an email
database that is larger than 2 GB.
Jeremy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bug report PM addressbook and apostrophes (copy)
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:38:39 +0100
Michael J. Hußmann said:
>This appears to be a problem not with accented characters as such, but
>with dead keys like "`", "´", or "~". CTM developers in Geneva wouldn't
>experience this problem as they can type most of those accented
>characters directly on their French keyboards, without resorting to
dead keys.
Yes, I'm going to supply this information in a followup to my bug report
(to CTM Dev).
Meanwhile I'm going to use the workaround with pasting. I also
discovered that, if I first write an umlaut, and then go back and
exchange that for the accented character, then it also displays properly.
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Time Machine discussion.
From: "MB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:30:50 +0100
Jeremy Hughes said:
>A shrinking number, because we are (or have or will be) switching to
>different email clients. PowerMail doesn't work if you have an email
>database that is larger than 2 GB.
I'd switch if there was a compelling client. I have yet to find one I
like better. I choose PowerMail because it doesn't get in the way of my
email reading and writing. As I did hit the 2GB limit regularly last
year, I swallowed the bitter pill and archived thousands, if not hundred
of thousands, messages. While I miss some folders from time to time, I
think archiving to another DB was an acceptable loss. Much information
do get dated.
It also fit my Feng Shui inspired clean-out of the mess in all areas of
my life. Letting go is wonderful, because it creates room for the new.
This applies to email messages as well. For me only business-related
clients and friends emails are truly worth keeping around.
>Yes it does. The problem is that my email database is nearly 2 GB in
>size, and the entire database is backed up every day. If I was using
>Time Machine (I'm not), it would be backing this up every hour. If
>PowerMail followed other email clients in having a separate email
>database for each folder, all that would need to be backed up would be
>the folders that received new emails in the last day (or hour in the
>case of TM). This excludes the largest folders, which are archives of
>previous years' emails.
I really do think that the proper approach under the current
circumstance would be for CTM to help and assist to find an *automated*
export of Powermail Exchange files containing only the messages that
have been downloaded since the last backup. Email DB ID would be better
than Received Date as basis for that. These exported message files could
then be moved by the backup program and deleted.
One way to do this would be for CTM to supply support of export
scripting in a future PM update. Something which sadly is missing today.
.
Qrecall <http://www.qrecall.com/> also looks promising, but I don't know
how open file problems could affect it's effectiveness. I'm
contemplating a purchase.
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish/SpamSieve 2.6.4 Swedish | OS X 10.4.8 | Powerbook
G4/400 Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of powermail-discuss Digest
