powermail-discuss Digest #2970 - Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Of iCloud and Lotto...
by "CTM info" <[email protected]>
Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
by "Midi Cox" <[email protected]>
Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
by "Midi" <[email protected]>
Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
by "Midi" <[email protected]>
Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
by "Midi" <[email protected]>
Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
by "Peter Lovell" <[email protected]>
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Subject: Of iCloud and Lotto...
From: "CTM info" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:17:11 +0100
Dear PowerMail users,
We have been carefully pondering the consequences on some of your following
Apple's drop of POP3 support in iCloud. We certainly are MobileMe users and
understand the issue.
Let me start with the positioning statement for PowerMail:
"An excellent POP3 mail client with best-of-class FoxTrot search technology,
sprinkled with a lightweight IMAP4 implementation."
We are very much of the persuasion that local storage of personal data is and
will remain a relevant concept, be it for privacy reasons (do you want allow a
cloud-hosting company, state or hacker to be a single password away from your
entire data life ?) or for security reasons - being able to manage what is and
should remain locally searchable at any time - uptime, downtime, anytime) is
crucial to many of us.
The lightweight IMAP implementation we have in PowerMail was designed as such;
one of its visible limitations is connecting to one account at a time, but was
also intended to offer it as an occasional alternative to logging into a POP3
account if needed - when on an expensive data link such as GSM data, for
deleting an oddly formed single message from the server, and so on.
Over the years it is been apparent that we care greatly for PowerMail and
strive to maintain PowerMail in working order. I have two pieces of news on
this topic: version 6.1.1b2 will soon be ready for testing, it fixes a couple
of 10.7.3 squawks and has successfully passed quick-look testing on the Mac OS
X 10.8 Mountain Lion developer seed - so if Apple doesn't break anything on us,
PowerMail shall do fine on the next Mac OS X.
On the topic of modifying the code so as to implement POP-over-IMAP, I'm very
grateful that Peter Lovell brought this up because this was precisely our
thinking when the iCloud message thread started.
However, the implementation hurdles are higher than expected. The least painful
route would be to modify the current IMAP code and break its current behavior
(downside: alienates those who use IMAP as it is), but this *would* require
very substantial work. Extending the user interface to enable a third option
besides POP3 and IMAP would be a truly considerable project, as it would also
require database work for settings et. al.
So the Lotto would seem like a plausible financing scenario for such a project
;-) We are not players, but hope that some of you are.
More seriously, I see four avenues for users to choose from:
- If you wish to drop PowerMail, we can understand that although we do think
there are mitigation scenarios. Read on.
- Migrating to another hosting provider than iCloud, one that respects your
needs for POP3, is another avenue. This is the one we are choosing internally
with auto-forwarding setup in MobileMe for legacy mac.com/me.com email
addresses to a server that we run in-house. Of course it could be on another
provider as weel,
- In the meantime - and possibly in the long run, a parallel use of PowerMail
and Apple Mail on the Mac/iPad/iPhone accessing our iCloud addresses does work
nicely. Apple Mail is indexable with FoxTrot Personal Search or Professional
Search, so we get much of the searching back
- Finally, using PowerMail's lightweight IMAP4, you could nevertheless achieve
with a little manual work what Peter Lovell was suggesting (POP3 over IMAP):
- setup the account as IMAP
- Once connected, copy all remote messages waiting to a local folder
(with a name such as "Local INBOX) and then delete them from the IMAP4 server
- Reply and process messages in the Local INBOX as if it had come over
POP3; apply filters to them with the contextual menu.
We hope these avenues, while imperfect, will help you continue use PowerMail
for its strengths.
Kind regards,
jean michel/ctm qa
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Subject: Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
From: "Midi Cox" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:58:16 -0800
Jean Michel,
Thank you for this suggestion. I will try PowerMail again for my mac.com email.
I so much want to have my email in PowerMail. I switched to PowerMail when
Claris Emailer went away and have been pleased with it.
And thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response.
Midi Cox
San Diego CA
On Feb 28, 2012, at 2:17 PM, CTM info wrote:
> - Finally, using PowerMail's lightweight IMAP4, you could nevertheless
> achieve with a little manual work what Peter Lovell was suggesting (POP3 over
> IMAP):
> - setup the account as IMAP
> - Once connected, copy all remote messages waiting to a local folder
> (with a name such as "Local INBOX) and then delete them from the IMAP4 server
> - Reply and process messages in the Local INBOX as if it had come over
> POP3; apply filters to them with the contextual menu.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
From: "Midi" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 20:45:56 -0800
I am back to using PowerMail for my mac.com email under Lion. I can have Apple
Mail off pretty much most of the time but have to check an Exchange server on
one account occasionally. (I could never make the Exchange server work with
PowerMail and get so few messages there, I gave up.)
So, all my old Mail messages came into the inbox but how do I delete them? I
tried and they are now grey but still there. I moved them to the appropriate
folder first so there is an accesible version.
Midi
CTM caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:
>Peter Lovell was suggesting (POP3 over IMAP):
> - setup the account as IMAP
> - Once connected, copy all remote messages waiting to a local folder
>(with a name such as "Local INBOX) and then delete them from the IMAP4 server
> - Reply and process messages in the Local INBOX as if it had come over
>POP3; apply filters to them with the contextual menu.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
From: "Midi" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:34:56 -0800
Well it seems that quiting PowerMail got them gone. I think my PowerMail
implementation for mac.com is clear. I find that I need to physically move
messages to folders where I want to store them, not use the filters. But the
filters on sent messages work! I can live with that.
Midi
Midi caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:
>I am back to using PowerMail for my mac.com email under Lion. I can have
>Apple Mail off pretty much most of the time but have to check an
>Exchange server on one account occasionally. (I could never make the
>Exchange server work with PowerMail and get so few messages there, I gave up.)
>
>So, all my old Mail messages came into the inbox but how do I delete
>them? I tried and they are now grey but still there. I moved them to the
>appropriate folder first so there is an accesible version.
>
>Midi
>
>CTM caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:
>
>>Peter Lovell was suggesting (POP3 over IMAP):
>> - setup the account as IMAP
>> - Once connected, copy all remote messages waiting to a local folder
>>(with a name such as "Local INBOX) and then delete them from the IMAP4 server
>> - Reply and process messages in the Local INBOX as if it had come over
>>POP3; apply filters to them with the contextual menu.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
From: "Midi" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:35:03 -0800
I am back to using PowerMail for my mac.com email under Lion. I can have Apple
Mail off pretty much most of the time but have to check an Exchange server on
one account occasionally. (I could never make the Exchange server work with
PowerMail and get so few messages there, I gave up.)
So, all my old Mail messages came into the inbox but how do I delete them? I
tried and they are now grey but still there. I moved them to the appropriate
folder first so there is an accesible version.
Midi
CTM caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:
>Peter Lovell was suggesting (POP3 over IMAP):
> - setup the account as IMAP
> - Once connected, copy all remote messages waiting to a local folder
>(with a name such as "Local INBOX) and then delete them from the IMAP4 server
> - Reply and process messages in the Local INBOX as if it had come over
>POP3; apply filters to them with the contextual menu.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Of iCloud and Lotto...
From: "Peter Lovell" <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 11:24:49 -0500
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012, CTM info <[email protected]> wrote:
>However, the implementation hurdles are higher than expected. The least
>painful route would be to modify the current IMAP code and break its
>current behavior (downside: alienates those who use IMAP as it is), but
>this *would* require very substantial work. Extending the user interface
>to enable a third option besides POP3 and IMAP would be a truly
>considerable project, as it would also require database work for
>settings et. al.
Hi Jean Michel and everyone,
thanks for your comments and suggestions.
I also would not like to break the existing behavior. As you say, that
alienates current users.
But I'd like to follow the discussion of POP-over-IMAP a little further.
Today we have a bundling of behavior and protocol, whether it be POP or IMAP or
something else. My thought is to separate these and have POP behavior with IMAP
protocol on the wire. So the user interface choice (POP3 or IMAP4) would
actually be a choice of behavior (today it is labeled "Protocol"). The choice
of on-the-wire protocol would be implicit in the specification of port number.
If the port is 993 then the protocol is IMAP4+SSL; anything else is POP3.
Under this approach there would be no UI changes needed, or database work for
settings etc. They would remain exactly as they are today. The code for IMAP4
protocol already exists and hopefully any needed adjustment would be small.
Would this approach reduce the height of the hurdle to something that could be
managed?
Regards.....Peter
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End of powermail-discuss Digest
