I appreciate all the feedback thus far.

I am glad to see healthy discussion about the topic.  There has been some very 
good information passed along.

In our case, we have been seeing a total RDD (TLD) results for the period 
higher than the total EAD (ED) results.

I know there are a number of factors that are in play.  Of big concern is that 
we operate with HWC at about 35 scfm
and have a fairly large number of people that work in the Protected Area 
exposed to the turbine shine that do not wear EDs.
The more workers we have in the PA without EDs, the larger the discrepancy.

An immediate action has been to reduce or eliminate the occupation of the 
higher dose rate areas.

Also, our software (current version) does not allow us to track ED dose to 0.1 
mrem.

I am attempting to procure an upgrade, but that is a very long-term project to 
get into the budget.

Needless to say, I have been trying to get a good understanding of this effect 
through the rest of the industry.

Thank you for the support.

Scott Huneycutt
Radiation Protection
763.295.1380


________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Michael Lantz
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Powernet: RE: period TLD-ED dose discrepancy criteria

Thanks June for keeping the old dosimetry write-up!! And Sandy of course for 
commenting.

It was great that June sent this back to Powernet because it was 1999 and, yes, 
some of these ED issues have been resolved.  However, the magnitude and scope 
of the issues related to bringing EDs and TLDs together is still as large.  
Bringing the individual and man-rem totals together for record and incremental 
dosimetry is a difficult task.  It can't or shouldn't be answered with a single 
factor incorporated onto the EDs.

In the past few years at the Dosimetry Symposiums and in many conversations 
with fellow HPs, I have presented the following issues to study the impacts to 
dosimetry at your facility:

SYSTEMATIC ISSUES
Dose incurred when worker was not in RCA or not on RWP (in PA at BWRs)
TLD processing problems (in conjunction with algorithm issues)
Generic algorithm problems (use of LiBO at doses that are too low)
TLD LLD
ED rounding ("log out if you get to 0.4 mR"); i.e., Facility not recording the 
ED tenths
Numerous short RCA entries with 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, etc (an ED at 0.1 or 0.2 could 
actually be 0.19 or 0.28)
Improper or no fade correction
Personnel TLDs not stored properly with controls (controls not representative)
Controls stored in cars (heat = fade)
Incorrect control values used (TLDs annealed at different times, anomalous 
control elements)
In-transit exposures with minimal control badges (the controls may not detect 
the full magnitude of the transit exposure)
The original ED calibrations (the initial calibration should be checked at 
Battelle along with TLD tests)
Overall TLD calibration
Manufacturing issues (dopant irregularities, variable fade, lead contamination, 
filter thickness, incorrect phosphor types, phosphor cross-contamination, TLD 
filter mix-ups)
Angular response of larger EDs
Energy response characteristic differences (N-16 exposures (e.g., RCP oil 
addition), low En photons like Xe-133 exposure)
Internal ED software problems, including computer tracking problems of ED 
results

INDIVIDUAL ISSUES

TLD element readings do not fit the algorithm norms (flyers, gradients)

ED spikes from radio frequency interference, welding, moisture, sweat, 
micro-phonics, static charge

ED moved on body in a dose gradient, but the TLD not moved (or opposite)

ECF shifts in particular TLDs
Physical damage (moisture, dirt, loose phosphor, contamination)
TLD history (previous high doses)
RCA entry tracking errors or record badge worn when multiple TLDs worn
Medical uptakes and the worker wore TLD
Worker not wearing ED or TLD during an entry
Worker not wearing ED and TLD close together (e.g., TLD on lanyard and ED in 
pocket)
Worker storing TLD in different location (not with controls - his locker or 
desk)
TLD mix-ups at issue
Worker wearing another worker's TLD on occasion
Intermittent TLD Reader malfunctions
Erratic response of EDs
Dose rate, energy, and angular under-response of EDs, or in-field failures of 
EDs
Internal ED software problems, including computer tracking problems of ED 
results
EDs not turned on, or EDs storing dose for several entries
Many problems when TLDs are taken home - - fading from storage in hot places, 
wearing TLD to doctor, radioactive material at home, family members having 
medicals

This may be the longest Powernet note in a while.  But it is a deserving topic.

Mike
Michael Lantz
Manager, Technical Services
Mirion Technologies (GDS)
  602 677 3020
On Nov 30, 2011, at 2:11 PM, Perle, Sandy wrote:

Thanks June for re-posting,

One must also recognize that the EADs of the 1999 vintage (and earlier) have 
some different characteristics than compared to some of the EADs today. Their 
design and technical advancements have "minimized" some of Mike's points. As 
you may be ware, Mike has been  working with me at Mirion Technologies for 
about 2 years now and routinely consults to many of the reactor sites (be they 
our client, in-house or other provider).

Regards,

Sandy

-----------------------------------
Sander C. Perle
President
Mirion Technologies
Dosimetry Services Division
2652 McGaw Avenue
Irvine, CA 92614
+1 (949) 296-2306 (Office)
+1 (949) 296-1130 (Fax)
Mirion Technologies: http://www.mirion.com/

From: June Scott <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Reply-To: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:00:55 -0600
To: powernet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: Powernet: RE: period TLD-ED dose discrepancy criteria

<image001.gif>
This list of EAD response is an excerpt from a radsafe discussion from Mike 
Lantz (1/29/1999) in response to Sandy Perle.  It defines some of the EAD 
response characteristics and the effect on CRE and EAD individual response. It 
provides testing data for EAD response and the resulting bias that is being 
used.
Also, if you look at the TLD-EAD  bias by binning the data in 30 mrem 
increments you distinctly see the changes in EAD to TLD response from low doses 
to high doses.  In a plant setting it is quite often the perceived need to 
"match" the doses less than 30 mrem that require the EAD over response to be 
set high. This is confirmed also by the data on John's graph in the lower left 
of the page.  Tracking of dose >100 mrem in a month and in photon fields close 
to the calibration energy correlate closely.
1) Exposure to high energy photons from underneath, such as standing on =
a high integrity container of rad waste, TLD =3D 600 mrem, SRD =3D 575 =
mrem and ED =3D 250 mrem because of significant angular dependence.  =
This factor of more than 2 increases to a factor of 4 underresponse if =
the transmitter is added to the ED.=20

2) ED's have underresponded by a factor of 3 to noble gas submersion =
(dominated by Xe-133) even though testing shows the ED responds =
accurately to 80 kev photons at perpendicular incidence.  Again, a =
serious angular dependence.

3) Low energy photons from the side, top or underneath have been =
measured to respond a factor of 14 low (!) in laboratory testing by the =
vendor.  In my article a few years ago, I worried if these ED's were =
being used by flouroscopists because of the likelihood of significant =
underresponse.=20

4)  The vast majority of ED's in use in the US will significantly =
underrespond to any photons below approximately 60 keV at perpendicular =
incidence, and worsens dramatically as the angle moves from 0 degrees.

5) ED's will saturate and underrespond in VHRA's; and the underresponse =
will be relatively unknown.  We recently tested a brand new dosimeter =
type that responded well at 90 R/hr, but at 120 R/hr indicated NO =
response, nothing!  Its secondary dead time correction in its =
complicated dose rate to dose conversion algorithm, which is known to NO =
users, failed and the dosimeter stopped working until the dose rate was =
reduced to below 100 R/hr!  We also tested ED's to NVLAP Proficiency =
Testing and 2 dosimeters read 54% and 65% lower than expected because =
they were irradiated to a high dose rate.

6) Drills, motors, and magnetic fields have placed ED's into a latent =
state where they are completely UNRESPONSIVE to radiation, regardless of =
the dose rate.

7) The energy response characteristics of individual pin diode detectors =
have been documented to be much more variable than I have ever seen in =
TLD or film testing.  Variable responses, certainly more notable as the =
energy of photons is decreased, have been found, possibly related to =
dopants in the pin diode materials; errors up to 60%.

8) ED's have been found to change calibration factors by a factor of 2 =
in the field; and then correct themselves.

9) The current crop of ED's are fairly new.  I find this the hardest =
part to swallow that people think they just work; and will continue to =
work or be supported by the vendor for years, even as the vendors move =
to newer designs.  As they have aged, loss and repair rates have been =
significant.  Speakers for the alarms fail.  And so little has been =
published.=20

10) Computer software and hardware that is not in a mature state yet =
controls the tracking of all doses to be recorded by ED's.  Examples of =
data loss (ie, dose) include a recent situation where a terminal to =
verify that the ED was turned on actually turned off random ED's.  Other =
software problems continue to lose dose by ED's.

This is part of the list of problems with EDs that I wrote about in =
1996.  One of our many duties must be to continue to set standards for =
personnel dosimetry that guarantee our facility personnel high quality =
dosimetry that works in all spectra, angles and environments that they =
will encounter.  The vendors have continued to improve their products =
and we should be proud that we were part of the push for that =
improvement.

Mike Lantz, CHP

[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

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