>us not consider them further. Consider all the motivated, enthusiastic
>students who fail to program instead. They should be of concern.

I am not aware of anyone who is motivated and enthusiastic about programming 
who fails to learn to program. The people who don't learn are not motivated and 
not enthusiastic. They have tried it and don't like it. it is usually nothing 
to do with the teaching. (Note, yes, poor teaching does exist but rarely at 
this important level any more)

>I think it is a well known fact that many universities struggle with getting
>half or more of their CS intake to program. They should be of concern.

Why do you think they are not of concern? (Most) Universities are very 
concerned about people on their courses who cannot perform, but computing 
courses have an additional burden that they have many students who have ended 
up there by default - they don't know what to do at university and feel they 
have to go and people say to them "do a computing course, there are lots of 
jobs and you like games and internet". They have not programmed and when they 
do they find they don't like it. You can't make people like something they 
don't want to.

>Nevertheless, the situation is that many HE CS departments have large
>numbers of students on roll who avoid programming as much as possible. I
>would deem that to be a most unsatisfoactory state of affairs to all

And of course it is when that is the case. Why do you assume it is not?

>If I were running a CS department, I would make it a priority to
>turn weak students round in the first term. A massive effort wodl be needed,
>calling all hands to the deck - engaging P/T tutors, perhaps even from the
>ranks of other students. But the investment would be worth it. More than
>resources, it calls for a sea change in attitude, from counting bums on
>seats to one of a pedagogical 'can do'.

Umm, I suspect that you haven't actually been near a University CS department 
for a while have you? What do you think we try to do? Exactly this, but as I 
pointed out before there is only a finite and limited amount of resource 
available - money, skilled people and time are the bottom lines and there is 
never enough of either of them to organise this kind of intensive teaching. We 
also have to meet all kinds of requirements about content forced on us by 
"professional" bodies and such like things which also restrict time available. 
If you were running a CS department you would find that your hands were pretty 
much tied.

If we could get decent computing teaching in schools then we could behave like 
all the other subjects and ask for relevant entry qualifications but at the 
moment we can't do this, so the weeding out process happens at too high a level 
and much too late.


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