Betul sekali! Banyak penduduk palestina yang sipil yang mati, tetapi mereka adalah, sorry pakai istilah ini, collateral damage. Yang dituju bukan orang sipil tsb. Benten. Kalau yg dituju adalah orang sipil, pasti ada orang israel yg lain yg memprotesnya.
Akan jauh lebih berkurang korban yang jatuh diantara orang2 palestina jika jika orang2 palestina tsb. tidak melawan israel dari antara penduduk palestina. Coba pakai contoh ini ya. Si A naik mobil sambil mabuk, nabrak orang, orangnya mati. Si B naik mobil, tidak mabuk, remnya blong, nabrak orang, orangnya mati. Untuk orang mati tsb. dan saudaranya, tidak ada perbedaannya, soalnya orangnya mati kan. Tetapi di pengadilan berbeda. Si A pasti dihukum, si B jika terbukti bahwa dia tidak ngebut, tidak mabuk, dll, maka si B tidak akan kena hukuman. Bahkan mungkin saja pabrik mobil, atau bengkel mobil yang di bawa ke pengadilan, di "sue" begitu. Yang terakhir di dalam balas membalas antara israel dan palestina terjadi kemarin ini. Ada posting di mlis ini mengenai jatuh korbannya orang palestina. tentara israel menyerang palestina, karena sebelum itu ada roket kasam yg di lontarkan ke perumahan orang israel yang mengakibatkan penduduk sipil yg mati. Dan ini bukan kejadian yang pertama kali. Tentara israel tsb. kemudian menyerang pejuang palestina yg berjuang diantara perumahan penduduk palestina. Mengenai israel dan palestina - coba kalau negara2 arab tidak menyerang israel ber-kali2, maka: - tidak akan ada orang2 dari ke dua belah pihak yang mati. - tidak ada pengungsi - daerah palestina lebih besar dari west bank dan gaza strip. Pertanyaan: siapa yang menduduki west bank dan gaza strip sebelum th. 1967? Banyak sudah balas membalas antara israel dan palestina, sehingga orang2 lupa akan asal mulanya persoalan timbul tsb. Ngomong2 mengenai pengungsi: orang2 palestina yang pengungsi sampai sekarang masih tinggal di kamp2 pengungsi. Sesudah perang dunia ke dua banyak sekali orang2 yahudi yang diusir dari negara2 Arab, padahal mereka sudah tinggal disitu ber-abad2 lamanya. Kita tidak mendengar mengenai itu. Ada yang mengungsi ke israel, dan ada yang ke negara2 eropa yang lain atau ke amrik. Mereka sudah integrasi dengan penduduk sekitarnya, dan hidup dengan melihat kedepan. Life goes on. Saya ingat, kalau nggak salah awal tahun ini, lupa di koran apa, tetapi Muamar Qadafi di dalam salah satu interviewnya mengenai pembayaran kompensasi untuk korban pesawat panam, dia juga mengatakan bahwa dia bersedia untuk bayar kompensasi bagi orang yahudi yang diusir dari Libya. for your info, waktu dia berkuasa, sisa2 orang yahudi yg tinggal di libya waktu itu, (banyak yg sudah lari duluan sesudah perang dunia ke dua), diusir oleh kadafi. --- On Fri 10/01, Suhiro < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: From: Suhiro [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 02:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [ppiindia] Deportasi Yusuf Islam: Bush Paranoid? <br><br>jangan lupa lho, israel juga menyerang penduduk sipil palestina, tidak<br>juga peduli bayi-wanita-anak-anak atau orang dewasa,<br><br>orang-orang palestina menjadi nekat dan berani mati samapi mengebom bunuh<br>diri, itu karena putus asa tidak ada jalan keluar.<br><br>coba , apa ada yang bisa menunjukkan jalan keluar bagi mereka?<br><br>semua jalan kayaknya sudah ditutup, mau ke PBB dihdang USA, ...there is no<br>way out....saya kira kitapun akan melakukan yang sama kalau jalan<br>tertutp...kayak air mendidih yang tidak ada diberi jalan keluar uap<br>air..lama-lama juga meledak<br><br><br>On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, amartien wrote:<br><br>> <br>> "Jika muslim seperti Cat Stevens dianggap teroris, maka<br>> muslim lainnya juga bisa dianggap teroris<br>> <br>> Rupanya anda tidak membaca artikel tsb. Cat Stevens memang telah banyak membuat perbuatan yang baik, tetapi ia juga membantu kegiatan teroris. Di artikel tsb. kan dia adalah salah satu tokok di fund raising meeting nya organisasi tsb.<br>> <br>> Kalau baca disimak yang bener dong.<br>> <br>> Mengenai Hamas, apakah sudah baca nggak charternya hamas? Tujuannya adalah menghancurkan negara Israel. Dan cara2-nya adalah dengan melakukan teror. Apakah anda tidak tahu apa arti dari pada terorisme?<br>> <br>> Kalau seumpamanya hamas dalam rangka mencapai tujuannya tsb. hanya menyerang tentara israel - maka ia tidak akan disebut sebagai teroris. Tetapi anda tahu sendiri bahwa hamas menyerang penduduk sipil. Karena itulah maka dia disebut sebagai teroris.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --- On Thu 09/30, A Nizami < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:<br>> From: A Nizami [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 18:26:13 -0700 (PDT)<br>> Subject: RE: [ppiindia] Deportasi Yusuf Islam: Bush Paranoid?<br>> <br>> Hamas adalah pejuang kemerdekaan yang melawan penjajah<br>Israel. Sama dengan pejuang kemerdekaan Indonesia<br>dulu.<br><br>Jika muslim seperti Cat Stevens dianggap teroris, maka<br>muslim lainnya juga bisa dianggap teroris. Kasihan deh<br>lo....:)<br><br><br>--- amartien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:<br><br>> <br>><br>http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=572cea4b-839c-4080-9999-f53611a46aba<br>> <br>> <br>> Cat Stevens was guest of Canadian Hamas front<br>> Muslim singer criticized Judaism as a 'so-called'<br>> religion<br>> <br>> Stewart Bell <br>> National Post <br>> <br>> <br>> Tuesday, September 28, 2004<br>> <br>> <br>> TORONTO<br>> <br>> <br>> - Yusuf Islam, the British singer formerly<br>> known as Cat Stevens, was the guest of honour at a<br>> Toronto fundraising dinner hosted by an organization<br>> that has since been identified by the Canadian<br>> government as a "front" for the Palestinian<br>> terrorist group Hamas.<br>> <br>> In a videotape of the 1998 event obtained by the<br>> National Post, Mr. Islam describes Israel as a<br>> "so-called new society" created by a "so-called<br>> religion" and urges the audience to donate to the<br>> Jerusalem Fund for Human Services to "lessen the<br>> suffering of our brothers and sisters in Palestine<br>> and the Holy Land."<br>> <br>> The Jerusalem Fund is one of four "fronts" named in<br>> a secret Privy Council Office memo that was sent to<br>> Jean Chretien, then prime minister, on May 23, 2000,<br>> discussing what it called groups that "have<br>> unsavoury links with terrorism.<br>> <br>> "In a limited number of cases, fundraising in<br>> support of violent foreign struggles takes place in<br>> Canada through the cover of ethnic, religious or<br>> community-based associations and groups, lobbying<br>> and even criminal activity," the report says.<br>> <br>> "Front groups operating in Canada include the<br>> Jerusalem Fund for Human Services (Hamas Front), the<br>> World Tamil Movement (Tamil Tigers Front), the<br>> Canadian Kurdish Information Network (Kurdistan<br>> Workers Party Front) and the Babbar Khalsa (a Sikh<br>> extremist front)."<br>> <br>> Hamas, also known as the Islamic Resistance<br>> Movement, is responsible for most of the suicide<br>> bombings against Israelis. Canada has outlawed Hamas<br>> under federal anti-terrorism legislation, making it<br>> illegal to support the group.<br>> <br>> Best known for his hit songs in the 1960s and '70s,<br>> when he was known as Cat Stevens, Mr. Islam, 56, a<br>> Muslim convert, made headlines last week when his<br>> flight from London to Washington was diverted to<br>> Maine because his name appeared on a U.S. watch<br>> list. <br>> He was exp<br>> <br>> elled from the United States for national<br>> security reasons. "Yusuf Islam was placed on the<br>> watch list because of activities that could be<br>> potentially related to terrorism," a spokesman for<br>> the Department of Homeland Security told reporters.<br>> <br>> The expulsion was criticized by Muslim groups, and<br>> Mr. Islam denies any ties to terrorism. "I never<br>> knowingly gave any terrorist group money," he said<br>> after being deported from Israel in 2000. "I've<br>> given to poor people and hospitals. I've helped to<br>> buy ambulances in the Holy Land. Obviously quite<br>> clear and supportable aims."<br>> <br>> But on June 20, 1998, Mr. Islam gave the keynote<br>> address at a Jerusalem Fund fundraising dinner held<br>> in Toronto. The event was videotaped, and a copy was<br>> obtained by the SITE Institute, a U.S. terrorism<br>> research organization.<br>> <br>> The video opens with a scene of Niagara Falls,<br>> overlayed with the Jerusalem Fund logo, which<br>> features the al-Aqsa Mosque and the maple leaf. It<br>> begins with an unidentified man explaining the<br>> activities of the Jerusalem Fund, which he describes<br>> as "helping the Muslims in Palestine" by financing<br>> hospitals, health clinics, families in need and<br>> orphans.<br>> <br>> "Palestine is close to the heart of each and every<br>> Muslim. What the Muslims of Palestine have been<br>> doing for many years now has been that bright light<br>> shining, that hope ... that they are still believers<br>> that can raise the banner of jihad in the most<br>> difficult of circumstances."<br>> <br>> Mr. Islam then begins a 45-minute speech in English<br>> in which he says it is "intolerable" for Muslims to<br>> "stand and watch" the situation in the Middle East.<br>> He describes Jerusalem as the centre of a land that<br>> is holy because of its connection to Allah.<br>> <br>> "So this city which is blessed because of its<br>> religious nature. Therefore, what we see today is<br>> the result of the departure of religion from t<br>> <br>> hi<br>> s<br>> area, of the uprooting of religion. So many of the<br>> people of the faith have been exiled from this<br>> region, moved on, to make way for what? Strangely<br>> and ironically, they moved on in the name of<br>> so-called religion, on behalf of ... the Jews.<br>> <br>> "Of course, that would explain what is happening.<br>> Because the moment that religion and religious<br>> virtues disappear, there for sure follows trouble,<br>> tyranny, oppression," he says. "So what do we see<br>> then today? The concoction of a so-called new<br>> society based on an old society."<br>> <br>> He says there could be "no redeemer except Allah. No<br>> political concept or construct or treaty or agent<br>> except the laws of Allah, which he instructed for<br>> this world. Jerusalem is that, the symbol of that.<br>> Out of the hands of the righteous then it falls into<br>> disrepute and blood.<br>> <br>> "Jerusalem, al-Quds, it is a mirror reflecting the<br>> reality ... If it is dark, if it is bloody, then so<br>> too is the world. Today it reflects injustice of the<br>> secular man over the religious man. And how can the<br>> secular man be given the control and the sanctuary<br>> of the divine place of worship when he doesn't even<br>> respect what is holy? How? And how can those of<br>> faith allow that to happen? Therefore, peace will<br>> not return until we return to the Holy Land."<br>> <br>> � National Post 2004<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> --- On Wed 09/29, A Nizami < [EMAIL PROTECTED] ><br>> wrote:<br>> From: A Nizami [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],<br>> [EMAIL PROTECTED],<br>> [EMAIL PROTECTED],<br>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]<br>> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 04:18:25 -0700 (PDT)<br>> Subject: [ppiindia] Deportasi Yusuf Islam: Bush<br>> Paranoid?<br>> <br>> Assalamu'alaikum wr wb,<br><br>Saya pikir Bush<br>> paranoid terhadap teroris.<br>Sehingga meski dia<br>> bilang perang melawan teroris tidak<br>sama dengan<br>> perang melawan Islam, toh banyak ummat<b<br>> <br>> r>Islam yang<br>> jadi korbannya termasuk Cat Stevens yang<br>begitu<br>> cinta damai serta anak2 panti asuhan<br>> yang<br>kelaparan di satu ponpes di<br>><br>Sukabumi<br>(www.geocitis.com/nizaminz).<br><br>Banyak<br>> ormas Islam kekurangan dana, karena AS<br>> meminta<br>negara2 Timteng menghentikan aliran dana<br>> dengan alasan<br>bisa dipakai untuk<br>> terorisme.<br><br>Wassalamu'alaikum<br><br><br>><br>> YUSUF ISLAM'S STATEMENT<br>><br><br>><br>http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1312256,00.html<br>><br>> Friday September 24, 2004 <br>> <br>> First, I thank<br>> God for relieving me of my ordeal and<br>><br>> delivering me home<br>> safe; also, thanks to all<br>> those who prayed for me<br>> and supported me<br>> through<br>> this whole dark episode, from eminent<br>> politicians,<br>> the press and religious<br>><br>> leaders, to plain, everyday people. Never would<br>> I<br>> believe that such a thing<br>> could happen<br>> in the land of the free -<br>> unfortunately, it<br>> did. But it's<br>> warming to have such a wave of<br>> sympathy from my<br>> friends and my worldwide<br>><br>> well-wishers. <br>> <br>> After the experience of my<br>> dramatic deportation from<br>> the USA it feels<br>> like<br>> I am on a different planet from the one I<br>> was on a<br>> couple of days ago;<br>> certainly the<br>> world has changed, not for the best. <br>> <br>> Two<br>> days beforehand, I had started a journey with<br>> my<br>> daughter to Nashville,<br>> intending to<br>> initiate work on a new recording<br>> project.<br>> Suddenly, our<br>> aeroplane was diverted 600 miles<br>> to Bangor<br>> International Airport and I<br>><br>> found myself surrounded by six uniformed<br>> officers<br>> and handed over to the<br>> FBI for<br>> questioning. <br>> <br>> The most upsetting thing at<br>> this point was being<br>> separated from my<br>><br>> daughter, Maymanah, not knowing how she was or<br>> when<br>> and where we might be<br>> united. <br>><br>> <br>> And since my phone was confiscated I<br>> couldn't<b<br>> <br>> r><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> No banners. 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