>>>>>>we have to differ between man's ideology and religion...
no man could justify them self or condemn others that different from
them..<<<<
Great.
You have pointed out the the main desaster: we declare our picture of
God as the truth. My God. My religion. My opinion...
My ideology of understanding my religion is the only correct
interpretation. It is the religion per se. Other religions? oh
bullshit..
If I don't like your way of expressing your comments, so you are
childish..I am wise...I am mature..I am smart...
Well it is a matter of education, I suppose...
regards
RM D Hadinoto
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ***********************
> No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
>
> Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> ***********-***********
>
>
>
> Dear Pak Nur RG,
>
> that's exactly my point..
>
> religion is personal domain/territory.., but the history proved us
that
> when ppl begins to violate each other's territory in the name of
religion,
> the dispute between ideology ('' not religion'') begins.., no
religion
> taught their believer to hate or even against others that have
different
> religion.., we have to differ between man's ideology and
religion...
> no man could justify them self or condemn others that different
from them..
>
>
>
> Fidens
Simanjuntak
> <fidens.simanjuntak To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> @gmail.com>
cc:
> Subject: Re:
[ppiindia] Re: Franz Magnis-Suseno SJ: Tidak
> 10/21/2004 06:18 PM Dapat Dijerat
Hukum
> Please respond
to
>
ppiindia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Udah dari abad ke 7 masehi umat debat soal agama...
> >
> > Anehnya orang Islam mengkafirkan umat Kristen.
> > Umat Kristen menganggap kafir orang Islam.....
> >
> > Tuhan diam saja. tidak ada interfensi malahan perang berkali-kali
> > atas nama Tuhan yg sama.
> >
> > Kenapa Tuhan melihat saja semua ini terjadi???
>
> Tuhan bekerja through history. Tuhan selalu bekerja dalam frame
waktu
> manusia, tak pernah dengan prinsip "instant", jentik jari lalu jadi.
> Lihat saja penciptaan manusia yang makan waktu berjuta-juta tahun.
> Karenanya saya rasa masuk akal dan logis apabila damai datang di
dunia
> ini perlahan-lahan.
>
> Salam,
>
> --
> Fidens Felix Simanjuntak
> Master Course Student
> VLSI Design Lab.
> Graduate School of Information Science and Technology
> Osaka University, Japan
> Private URL: http://www.visiac.com
> Business URL: http://www.petanigroup.com
>
>
>
>
**********************************************************************
*****
> Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
Indonesia yg
> Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
>
**********************************************************************
*****
>
______________________________________________________________________
____
> Mohon Perhatian:
>
> 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
otokritik)
> 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
> 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> RG Nur
Rahmat
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> o.com>
cc:
> Subject: Re:
[ppiindia] Iraqi Christians need protection,
> 10/22/2004 02:34
too
>
PM
> Please respond
to
>
ppiindia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bu de Carla, lihatlah sejarah, Yahudi dan Nasrani masih wujud di
> negeri-negeri Arab, ketika kesultanan-kesultanan Islam tumbuh dan
> berkembang, coba bandingkna dengan Spanyol, sekarang ini banyak
kebebasan
> di negeri-negeri barat yg dirasakna mewkili Kristen adalah kaena
mereka
> sekuler, agama urusan pribadi individu saja.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ***********************
> No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
>
> Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> ***********-***********
>
>
>
> is not something ''new'', isn't it? minority christian always be
the victim
> of oppresion and condemnation with justification called '' in the
name of
> religion''...
>
>
>
> "Ambon"
> To:
> cc:
> 10/21/2004 06:13 Subject: [ppiindia] Iraqi Christians need
protection, too
> AM
> Please respond to
> ppiindia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FJ22Ak01.html
>
> Iraqi Christians need protection, too
> By Jim Lobe
>
> WASHINGTON - While the successful penetration by suicide bombers,
who
> killed
> 10 people, including four United States nationals, of the carefully
guarded
>
> "Green Zone" in downtown Baghdad grabbed headlines here this week,
another
> measure of the deteriorating security situation in Iraq came from a
more
> surprising source.
>
> In an article published Thursday in the online edition of the right-
wing
> National Review, an influential neo-conservative activist appealed
to the
> Bush administration to create a "safe haven" within Iraq
specifically for
> Iraq's estimated 800,000 Christians, or "Chaldo-Assyrians", 40,000
of who
> are believed to have left the country since the US invasion in the
face of
> growing persecution.
>
> The creation of such a zone, which is contemplated under the interim
> constitution approved by the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority
earlier
>
> this year, could curb the growing exodus and might even persuade
some who
> left to return, according to the author, Nina Shea, the director of
Freedom
>
> House's Center for Religious Freedom.
>
> "The community needs US help to create such a district, which should
> encompass the traditional community villages located near Mosul, in
the
> Nineveh Plains," according to Shea. "They believe that thousands of
their
> members who have fled to other countries in the Middle East over the
> decades
> but are not permanently resettled could be persuaded to return to
such a
> secure place."
>
> She also called on the State Department to begin providing
reconstruction
> aid directly to the Christian community in the region, and not just
to Arab
>
> and Kurdish groups living in the region.
>
> Calling the Chaldo-Assyrians the "canaries in the coal mine for the
Great
> Middle East", Shea, who enjoys good relations with the Bush White
House,
> noted that "the extent to which they are tolerated in the new Iraq
is being
>
> watched closely by Maronites of Lebanon, the Copts of Egypt, and
other
> non-Muslim populations in the region." Like the Chaldo-Assyrians,
the
> Maronites and Copts are Christian.
>
> Her appeal echoed those of a number of Iraqi-American Christian
groups,
> which met here earlier this month in a concerted effort to draw
attention
> to
> life in their co-religionists' communities, which has deteriorated
sharply
> since the US invasion in March 2003.
>
> "Widespread and systematic abuse of human rights and targeted
killings of
> Christians continue every day in Iraq, mainly in the Kurdish-
controlled
> areas in the North, Mosul and Baghdad," asserted a letter to the US
> Congress
> sent by the 70-year-old Assyrian American National Federation late
in
> September. "As a result of such atrocities, some 40,000 Assyrians
have
> already fled Iraq since July of this year," it added.
>
> "Iraq, once the center of the earliest Christian churches in the
world, may
>
> soon be cleared of its Assyrian population, the only indigenous
people of
> that country - ancient Mesopotamia," warned the letter, which also
called
> for Congress to earmark 5% of total reconstruction aid for
Iraq "for the
> safety of the Christian population and the rebuilding of their
villages".
>
> Communities of Christians have inhabited modern-day Mesopotamia
virtually
> since the dawn of Christianity 2,000 years ago. Most are Chaldeans,
or
> Eastern-rite Catholics, whose native tongue is Aramaic, the
language of
> Jesus.
>
> Most of the other Christians are Assyrian, who belong to different
> denominations, including the Ancient Church of the East, the Syrian
> Orthodox
> Church, the Chaldean Church and Protestant churches. The remainder
consist
> primarily of Syrian, Armenian, Greek Catholics; Armenian and Greek
> Orthodox;
> and, Mandaeans, who are followers of John the Baptist.
>
> Historically, the Chaldeans and Assyrians have been concentrated in
the
> Mosul area, although many left seeking economic opportunities in
other
> regions. During successive periods of "Arabization" in the post-
colonial
> era, and particularly under Ba'athist rule, some Christian
communities,
> like
> other non-Arab groups, particularly Kurds, were displaced in order
to make
> way for Arabs, especially from the southern part of the country.
>
> According to the last national census in 1987, Iraq had some 1.4
million
> Christians, but most sources estimate that 800,000 at most remain
in the
> country of some 23 million today. Most of the emigration took place
after
> Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, when UN sanctions brought intense
> economic hardship on middle-class families, in particular, a
> disproportionate number of which are Christian.
>
> As the sanctions continued to weaken the middle class during the
1990s,
> tens
> of thousands of Christians emigrated to nearby Arab countries,
notably
> Syria
> and Lebanon, Europe and North America.
>
> Under former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, Christians,
particularly
> Assyrians, who were sometimes referred to as Christian Kurds,
suffered from
>
> forced relocations in the north, and, like Kurds and Shi'ites, were
banned
> from organizing political parties.
>
> At the same time, they were welcomed into the Ba'ath Party (which
was
> co-founded by a Christian) and were permitted to rise, as did then
prime
> minister Tariq Aziz, to senior posts. The regime did not interfere
with
> their religious practice, and, in some cases, even provided
subsidies to
> churches.
>
> With the rise of Islamist sentiment, even before the US-led
invasion,
> Christians grew increasingly concerned about their fate in Iraq.
Popular
> pressure induced the regime to adopt Islamic slogans, build mosques
and
> even
> introduce a ban on alcohol, which hit the almost exclusively
Christian
> liquor-store and restaurant owners particularly hard.
>
> On the eve of the war, Pope John Paul II, along with a number of
Iraqi
> Christian clerics, made private and personal appeals to the Bush
> administration not to go to war, in major part because of their
fears that
> the aftermath could expose the community to much greater risks and
> persecution.
>
> "The concern is that Christians will disappear," Bishop Pierre
Whalon, an
> episcopal official working with the Chaldean church, told the
London-based
> Financial Times on the eve of the war. "The present regime gives
them some
> tolerance; who knows what the next one will do."
>
> Those fears, which were broadcast before the war by US Christian
> denominations but pooh-poohed by the neo-conservatives and other
hawks
> before the war, now appear to have been well grounded.
>
> Christian liquor-store and restaurant owners and their families
have been
> attacked - sometimes fatally - in predominantly Muslim towns and
cities,
> while last August five churches in Baghdad and Mosul were blown up
in a
> co-coordinated series of bombings. At the same time, wealthier
Christian
> families have been targeted for kidnapping by criminal gangs.
>
> Christians have also come under attack by Kurdish militias in the
north,
> including Mosul itself, where Kurds have clashed frequently with
Arabs and
> other minorities as they have tried to extend their control
to "Arabized"
> areas, which they consider to have been traditionally Kurdish.
>
> "They worry that this may be the beginning of either a jihad by
Muslim
> extremists or an ethnic-cleansing campaign by Kurds, with whom they
live in
>
> close proximity, or both," wrote Shea, who said the
administration "cannot
> afford to be indifferent to the persecution facing the Chaldo-
Assyrian
> religious minority".
>
> The result has been an exodus of an estimated 40,000 Christians so
far,
> most
> of who have emigrated to neighboring Syria. At the same time, many
others
> from Baghdad and the south have reportedly tried to move back to
their
> traditional homeland near Mosul, particularly around Dahouk, Zakho
and
> Irbil.
>
> It is this area that, according to Shea and the Christian Iraqi-
Americans,
> should be carved out and given special protection as contemplated by
> section
> 53(d) of the CPA-approved Basic Law, on which the interim Iraqi
government,
>
> however, has not yet taken a position.
>
> (Inter Press Service)
>
>
>
>
>
**********************************************************************
*****
> Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
Indonesia yg
> Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
>
**********************************************************************
*****
>
______________________________________________________________________
____
> Mohon Perhatian:
>
> 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
otokritik)
> 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
> 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
**********************************************************************
*****
> Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
Indonesia yg
> Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
>
**********************************************************************
*****
>
______________________________________________________________________
____
> Mohon Perhatian:
>
> 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
otokritik)
> 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
> 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
**********************************************************************
*****
> Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
Indonesia yg
> Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
>
**********************************************************************
*****
>
______________________________________________________________________
____
> Mohon Perhatian:
>
> 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
otokritik)
> 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
> 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/BRUplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
***************************************************************************
Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih
Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
***************************************************************************
__________________________________________________________________________
Mohon Perhatian:
1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik)
2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
