Nggak kok, apalagi malam Sabtu, santaaaaaiii...
Selamat akhir minggu
Salam
RM D Hadinoto
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ***********************
> No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
>
> Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> ***********-***********
>
>
>
>
>
> jgn bete dunk..Pak..,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "rm_danardono"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> oo.de>
cc:
> Subject: [ppiindia]
Re: Iraqi Christians need protection,
> 10/22/2004 03:51
too
>
PM
> Please respond
to
>
ppiindia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>>>we have to differ between man's ideology and religion...
> no man could justify them self or condemn others that different from
> them..<<<<
>
> Great.
>
> You have pointed out the the main desaster: we declare our picture
of
> God as the truth. My God. My religion. My opinion...
>
> My ideology of understanding my religion is the only correct
> interpretation. It is the religion per se. Other religions? oh
> bullshit..
>
> If I don't like your way of expressing your comments, so you are
> childish..I am wise...I am mature..I am smart...
>
> Well it is a matter of education, I suppose...
>
>
>
> regards
>
> RM D Hadinoto
>
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > ***********************
> > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> >
> > Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> > ***********-***********
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Pak Nur RG,
> >
> > that's exactly my point..
> >
> > religion is personal domain/territory.., but the history proved us
> that
> > when ppl begins to violate each other's territory in the name of
> religion,
> > the dispute between ideology ('' not religion'') begins.., no
> religion
> > taught their believer to hate or even against others that have
> different
> > religion.., we have to differ between man's ideology and
> religion...
> > no man could justify them self or condemn others that different
> from them..
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Fidens
> Simanjuntak
>
> > <fidens.simanjuntak To:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > @gmail.com>
> cc:
> > Subject: Re:
> [ppiindia] Re: Franz Magnis-Suseno SJ: Tidak
> > 10/21/2004 06:18 PM Dapat Dijerat
> Hukum
> > Please respond
> to
>
> >
> ppiindia
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Udah dari abad ke 7 masehi umat debat soal agama...
> > >
> > > Anehnya orang Islam mengkafirkan umat Kristen.
> > > Umat Kristen menganggap kafir orang Islam.....
> > >
> > > Tuhan diam saja. tidak ada interfensi malahan perang berkali-
kali
> > > atas nama Tuhan yg sama.
> > >
> > > Kenapa Tuhan melihat saja semua ini terjadi???
> >
> > Tuhan bekerja through history. Tuhan selalu bekerja dalam frame
> waktu
> > manusia, tak pernah dengan prinsip "instant", jentik jari lalu
jadi.
> > Lihat saja penciptaan manusia yang makan waktu berjuta-juta tahun.
> > Karenanya saya rasa masuk akal dan logis apabila damai datang di
> dunia
> > ini perlahan-lahan.
> >
> > Salam,
> >
> > --
> > Fidens Felix Simanjuntak
> > Master Course Student
> > VLSI Design Lab.
> > Graduate School of Information Science and Technology
> > Osaka University, Japan
> > Private URL: http://www.visiac.com
> > Business URL: http://www.petanigroup.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
> Indonesia yg
> > Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> ____
> > Mohon Perhatian:
> >
> > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
> otokritik)
> > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan
dikomentari.
> > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > RG Nur
> Rahmat
>
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > o.com>
> cc:
> > Subject: Re:
> [ppiindia] Iraqi Christians need protection,
> > 10/22/2004 02:34
> too
> >
> PM
>
> > Please respond
> to
> >
> ppiindia
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bu de Carla, lihatlah sejarah, Yahudi dan Nasrani masih wujud di
> > negeri-negeri Arab, ketika kesultanan-kesultanan Islam tumbuh dan
> > berkembang, coba bandingkna dengan Spanyol, sekarang ini banyak
> kebebasan
> > di negeri-negeri barat yg dirasakna mewkili Kristen adalah kaena
> mereka
> > sekuler, agama urusan pribadi individu saja.
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > ***********************
> > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> >
> > Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> > ***********-***********
> >
> >
> >
> > is not something ''new'', isn't it? minority christian always be
> the victim
> > of oppresion and condemnation with justification called '' in the
> name of
> > religion''...
> >
> >
> >
> > "Ambon"
> > To:
> > cc:
> > 10/21/2004 06:13 Subject: [ppiindia] Iraqi Christians need
> protection, too
> > AM
> > Please respond to
> > ppiindia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FJ22Ak01.html
> >
> > Iraqi Christians need protection, too
> > By Jim Lobe
> >
> > WASHINGTON - While the successful penetration by suicide bombers,
> who
> > killed
> > 10 people, including four United States nationals, of the
carefully
> guarded
> >
> > "Green Zone" in downtown Baghdad grabbed headlines here this week,
> another
> > measure of the deteriorating security situation in Iraq came from
a
> more
> > surprising source.
> >
> > In an article published Thursday in the online edition of the
right-
> wing
> > National Review, an influential neo-conservative activist appealed
> to the
> > Bush administration to create a "safe haven" within Iraq
> specifically for
> > Iraq's estimated 800,000 Christians, or "Chaldo-Assyrians", 40,000
> of who
> > are believed to have left the country since the US invasion in the
> face of
> > growing persecution.
> >
> > The creation of such a zone, which is contemplated under the
interim
> > constitution approved by the US-led Coalition Provisional
Authority
> earlier
> >
> > this year, could curb the growing exodus and might even persuade
> some who
> > left to return, according to the author, Nina Shea, the director
of
> Freedom
> >
> > House's Center for Religious Freedom.
> >
> > "The community needs US help to create such a district, which
should
> > encompass the traditional community villages located near Mosul,
in
> the
> > Nineveh Plains," according to Shea. "They believe that thousands
of
> their
> > members who have fled to other countries in the Middle East over
the
> > decades
> > but are not permanently resettled could be persuaded to return to
> such a
> > secure place."
> >
> > She also called on the State Department to begin providing
> reconstruction
> > aid directly to the Christian community in the region, and not
just
> to Arab
> >
> > and Kurdish groups living in the region.
> >
> > Calling the Chaldo-Assyrians the "canaries in the coal mine for
the
> Great
> > Middle East", Shea, who enjoys good relations with the Bush White
> House,
> > noted that "the extent to which they are tolerated in the new Iraq
> is being
> >
> > watched closely by Maronites of Lebanon, the Copts of Egypt, and
> other
> > non-Muslim populations in the region." Like the Chaldo-Assyrians,
> the
> > Maronites and Copts are Christian.
> >
> > Her appeal echoed those of a number of Iraqi-American Christian
> groups,
> > which met here earlier this month in a concerted effort to draw
> attention
> > to
> > life in their co-religionists' communities, which has deteriorated
> sharply
> > since the US invasion in March 2003.
> >
> > "Widespread and systematic abuse of human rights and targeted
> killings of
> > Christians continue every day in Iraq, mainly in the Kurdish-
> controlled
> > areas in the North, Mosul and Baghdad," asserted a letter to the
US
> > Congress
> > sent by the 70-year-old Assyrian American National Federation late
> in
> > September. "As a result of such atrocities, some 40,000 Assyrians
> have
> > already fled Iraq since July of this year," it added.
> >
> > "Iraq, once the center of the earliest Christian churches in the
> world, may
> >
> > soon be cleared of its Assyrian population, the only indigenous
> people of
> > that country - ancient Mesopotamia," warned the letter, which also
> called
> > for Congress to earmark 5% of total reconstruction aid for
> Iraq "for the
> > safety of the Christian population and the rebuilding of their
> villages".
> >
> > Communities of Christians have inhabited modern-day Mesopotamia
> virtually
> > since the dawn of Christianity 2,000 years ago. Most are
Chaldeans,
> or
> > Eastern-rite Catholics, whose native tongue is Aramaic, the
> language of
> > Jesus.
> >
> > Most of the other Christians are Assyrian, who belong to different
> > denominations, including the Ancient Church of the East, the
Syrian
> > Orthodox
> > Church, the Chaldean Church and Protestant churches. The remainder
> consist
> > primarily of Syrian, Armenian, Greek Catholics; Armenian and Greek
> > Orthodox;
> > and, Mandaeans, who are followers of John the Baptist.
> >
> > Historically, the Chaldeans and Assyrians have been concentrated
in
> the
> > Mosul area, although many left seeking economic opportunities in
> other
> > regions. During successive periods of "Arabization" in the post-
> colonial
> > era, and particularly under Ba'athist rule, some Christian
> communities,
> > like
> > other non-Arab groups, particularly Kurds, were displaced in order
> to make
> > way for Arabs, especially from the southern part of the country.
> >
> > According to the last national census in 1987, Iraq had some 1.4
> million
> > Christians, but most sources estimate that 800,000 at most remain
> in the
> > country of some 23 million today. Most of the emigration took
place
> after
> > Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, when UN sanctions brought
intense
> > economic hardship on middle-class families, in particular, a
> > disproportionate number of which are Christian.
> >
> > As the sanctions continued to weaken the middle class during the
> 1990s,
> > tens
> > of thousands of Christians emigrated to nearby Arab countries,
> notably
> > Syria
> > and Lebanon, Europe and North America.
> >
> > Under former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, Christians,
> particularly
> > Assyrians, who were sometimes referred to as Christian Kurds,
> suffered from
> >
> > forced relocations in the north, and, like Kurds and Shi'ites,
were
> banned
> > from organizing political parties.
> >
> > At the same time, they were welcomed into the Ba'ath Party (which
> was
> > co-founded by a Christian) and were permitted to rise, as did then
> prime
> > minister Tariq Aziz, to senior posts. The regime did not interfere
> with
> > their religious practice, and, in some cases, even provided
> subsidies to
> > churches.
> >
> > With the rise of Islamist sentiment, even before the US-led
> invasion,
> > Christians grew increasingly concerned about their fate in Iraq.
> Popular
> > pressure induced the regime to adopt Islamic slogans, build
mosques
> and
> > even
> > introduce a ban on alcohol, which hit the almost exclusively
> Christian
> > liquor-store and restaurant owners particularly hard.
> >
> > On the eve of the war, Pope John Paul II, along with a number of
> Iraqi
> > Christian clerics, made private and personal appeals to the Bush
> > administration not to go to war, in major part because of their
> fears that
> > the aftermath could expose the community to much greater risks and
> > persecution.
> >
> > "The concern is that Christians will disappear," Bishop Pierre
> Whalon, an
> > episcopal official working with the Chaldean church, told the
> London-based
> > Financial Times on the eve of the war. "The present regime gives
> them some
> > tolerance; who knows what the next one will do."
> >
> > Those fears, which were broadcast before the war by US Christian
> > denominations but pooh-poohed by the neo-conservatives and other
> hawks
> > before the war, now appear to have been well grounded.
> >
> > Christian liquor-store and restaurant owners and their families
> have been
> > attacked - sometimes fatally - in predominantly Muslim towns and
> cities,
> > while last August five churches in Baghdad and Mosul were blown up
> in a
> > co-coordinated series of bombings. At the same time, wealthier
> Christian
> > families have been targeted for kidnapping by criminal gangs.
> >
> > Christians have also come under attack by Kurdish militias in the
> north,
> > including Mosul itself, where Kurds have clashed frequently with
> Arabs and
> > other minorities as they have tried to extend their control
> to "Arabized"
> > areas, which they consider to have been traditionally Kurdish.
> >
> > "They worry that this may be the beginning of either a jihad by
> Muslim
> > extremists or an ethnic-cleansing campaign by Kurds, with whom
they
> live in
> >
> > close proximity, or both," wrote Shea, who said the
> administration "cannot
> > afford to be indifferent to the persecution facing the Chaldo-
> Assyrian
> > religious minority".
> >
> > The result has been an exodus of an estimated 40,000 Christians so
> far,
> > most
> > of who have emigrated to neighboring Syria. At the same time, many
> others
> > from Baghdad and the south have reportedly tried to move back to
> their
> > traditional homeland near Mosul, particularly around Dahouk, Zakho
> and
> > Irbil.
> >
> > It is this area that, according to Shea and the Christian Iraqi-
> Americans,
> > should be carved out and given special protection as contemplated
by
> > section
> > 53(d) of the CPA-approved Basic Law, on which the interim Iraqi
> government,
> >
> > however, has not yet taken a position.
> >
> > (Inter Press Service)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
> Indonesia yg
> > Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> ____
> > Mohon Perhatian:
> >
> > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
> otokritik)
> > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan
dikomentari.
> > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
> Indonesia yg
> > Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> ____
> > Mohon Perhatian:
> >
> > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
> otokritik)
> > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan
dikomentari.
> > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
> Indonesia yg
> > Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> *****
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> ____
> > Mohon Perhatian:
> >
> > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
> otokritik)
> > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan
dikomentari.
> > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru;
> > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
**********************************************************************
*****
> Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju
Indonesia yg
> Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi-india.uni.cc
>
**********************************************************************
*****
>
______________________________________________________________________
____
> Mohon Perhatian:
>
> 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg
otokritik)
> 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari.
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> 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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