But mBak, between the Professor and the students in your posting there are uncountable views about God and nature. Like infinitesimally many points exist between two points... Another Professor, as an example, named Spinoza, believed that there is no dualism *) between God and the world; we need not go beyond the immediate present experience to seek for a being outside of it. God moves and lives in nature; the whole of it, the entire universe is God. Nature, or God is Its own cause and is self-sufficient. (Because of his view of God, Spinoza, during his lifetime and for a century after his death, was known as a man of appalling wickedness.) Man, in his egotistical way has imagined God to be like him; to be anthropomorphic in character; and, further, man imagines that this God (created in the imagine of man) has a special interest in, and concern for man. The Spinozistic God does not love nor hate. The totality of existence, Nature, God, is far above us, and is indifferent to our desires and aspirations, - gone is the notion of a personal God. As for the notions of good and evil, they exist, but only to the extent that they fit our own personal inclinations. "Such things as please us, we denominate good, those which displease us, evil."
----------- *) Dualism is the belief - that reality, subsists, both in thought and in matter. To Dualists, certain ideas are innate, held independent of experience, such as, for example, the existence of God. Such innate ideas are held as a priori truths. Dualism is to be compared to materialism and to idealism. Leibniz was a dualist, so was Plato. Some would restrict dualism to the philosophy of Kant, representing a bridge between empirical and rationalist views. I give it a wider meaning and note that it shows in the philosophies of a number of thinkers through the years. We think so we exist. Do we exist before we are born as human being? Will we exist after we left the earth? Do we still think before and after our life on this earth? Without our brain? Do we only think through our brain? How we find the ultimate truth? through brain? through faith? Why do so many faiths exist although only one ultimate truth? Are there so many ultimate truths? is Yahweh, Allah, God the same? Why do we have so many definitions of a same God, or Yahweh or Allah? Do our faiths unite us? Do we understand the creation of the Creator better due to our faith? Do we love each other since we are the creation of the same Creator? Does hate mean the absence of love? or does love mean the absence of hate? Is "good" for us automatically also "good" for God? Is something ugly for us also ugly for God? is Bush ugly for God? Is our enemy or the enemy of our religion, of our nation also the enemy of God? Is something fair for us also fair for God? Is Spinoza wrong because we are right? Mengapa tsunami terjadi di Aceh? karena God membenci kita? karena kebetulan? karena dosa? It is not that easy.... Salam Danardono [TOC] fauziah swasono <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and... Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son? Student: Yes, sir. Prof: So you believe in God? Student: Absolutely, sir. Prof: Is God good? Student: Sure. Prof: Is God all-powerful? Student: Yes. Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm! (Student is silent.) Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fellow. Is God good? Student: Yes. Prof: Is Satan good? Student: No. Prof: Where does Satan come from? Student: From...God... Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student: Yes. Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct? Student: Yes. Prof: So who created evil? (Student does not answer.) Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student: Yes, sir. Prof: So, who created them? (Student has no answer.) Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God? Student: No, sir. Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? Student: No, sir. Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter? Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't. Prof: Yet you still believe in Him? Student: Yes. Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student: Nothing. I only have my faith. Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has. Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Prof: Yes. Student: And is there such a thing as cold? Prof: Yes. Student: No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.) Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.) Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness? Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light... But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man? Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how? Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.) Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class is in uproar.) Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.) Student: Is there anyone, here, who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?... No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.) Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. Student: That is it sir. The link between man & God is FAITH. 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