dear all, generally fundamentalist ppl avoid dialogue altogether. They believe that there is no need to prove their belief and that everyone must accept it readily once they are called to do so.
Converting a fundamentalistic belief is very much an emotional rather than rational experience. Emotions act on the most primitive part of the brain. They are stronger and supersede the rational mind. As the result, it is not easy to reason with these type of ppl. They wont leave their belief system through reason alone. Their strong emotion towards their belief shields them from reason altogether. Their entire self esteem depends on how others perceive them and what they say about them. This is a key to understand their idiosyncrasy. A narcissist depends on compliments because in them he/she finds his/her narcissistic supplies. It is through the compliments of others that the narcissist finds his/she own validation and raison d'être. To a certain extent we all are narcissists. We want to be noticed. We seek attention. We want to matter. This craving is so strong that some even commit crime to elicit attention. Vandals destroy, so they can be noticed. Through vandalism they can see their handiwork and feel important. The same psychology is what motivates a serial arsonist or even a serial killer.. For a narcissist, the most important thing is the image. fundamentalist Muslims depend on the image of Islam for their self esteem. Having lost their identity and being left with nothing but Islam, they feel respected when Islam is respected and insulted when Islam is insulted. Shame is a painful experience. To avoid shame you have to hide the source of shame. This means you must protect the image. Your entire self esteem and self worth depends on that image. When you are shamed you become violence. Violence is one way we humans deal with shame. muslims, is most likely not a violent person. But given the chance to be fundamentalist they will do what they says they would. People of all faiths are offended when their religion is insulted, but only fundies Muslims are capable of completely losing their heads and becoming vicious murderers. Why? It is because fundies Muslims have lost their selfhood and Islam has become their only identity. Islam gives them self worth, a false sense of pride and selfhood. Once Islam is criticized, they feel their vulnerability and are shamed. What can you say when people call your prophet a pedophile and you can't deny it. This caused intense shame and the only way to deal with this shame is to become violent. The best way to describe their behavior is to say that they are possessed. Narcissism is fed through narcissistic supplies. Recognition and respect are narcissistic supplies. Feeding narcissism does not help the narcissist, It rather makes them worse. They become bullies, more arrogant and more demanding. Narcissists cannot be helped through appeasement. In the words of Churchill, An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last." fundies muslims can become violence if their religion is criticized. Savagery should not be tolerated. Those Muslims who choose to defend their religion with savagery should be locked up or kicked out. Dialogue should be welcomed, but there should be zero tolerance for violence. If your ethos is shame based, all you care is to preserve your image. The opposite of shame is honor. You can do wrong but as long as no one sees it, your image is not tarnished and you can still be seen as an honorable person. In a shame based culture, wrong and right have no meaning. It is all about shame and honor. If the stain of shame is removed, even if it means the murder of your own daughter, honor is restored. These are two very different worldviews. Unless we understand them we will not be able to make sense of Muslims and their minds. fundamentalism islam is a fear based philosophy that has taken root in a shame based milieu. This is a very dangerous combination. When you combine fear and shame moral codes, you give birth to the most insidious ethos imaginable. That is fundamentalism Islam. fundamentalism Islam is an illogical doctrine that is based on fear and is defended through honor. This makes fundies Islam more dangerous than Nazism. Muslims are not concerned about the irrationality of their belief or about good or evil. They are mostly concerned about losing face and upholding the image of Islam. One fact we must all agree on is that brute force is stronger than civility. If you and I confront each other and I use violence against you while you try to reason with me, I will win and you will lose. Ordinary people are not militant. They subscribe to the philosophy of live and let live. This is a commendable trait in a civilized world. However, where the law of juggle applies, the most ferocious and the most cunning beast is always the winner. A pack of hyenas can raid a large herd of wildebeests or gazelles; kill as many of them as they want and they are always victorious. The hyenas and other carnivores always win, because herbivores are not violent. Brute force wins. Good and evil are human concepts. In nature force is what matters. This is a principle. Because fundamentalist Muslims are militant, and the rest of mankind is not; because they are violent and the others are not, Muslims always win. If we choose the path of sanity, This means openly criticizing it, the way we do with Christianity or other religions. Christianity has not been spared from criticism. There has been nothing against Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism that could have been said and it hasn't. Why Islam should be spared from criticism? If there is any truth to Islam, let its apologists defend it. If it cannot be defended logically then it is a lie. Why should we bow to a lie when it is responsible for countless deaths and so much bloodshed? The weakness of fundamentalist Muslims is Islam. They cling to it for their identity and pride. They want you to respect Islam and with that feed their narcissistic craving. When you see millions of Muslims go berserk over a few cartoons, you know that you have touched a very sensitive cord. Islams grip on fundies Muslims is not logical but psychological. Fundamentalist Muslims are not afraid of fighting. They are not afraid of killing or dying. They are afraid of ridicule. That is their weak spot. these fundamentalist Muslims have resumed their iihad against humanity. Each side has its weakness. The weakness of non-Muslims, particularly the Westerners, is their guilt. Muslims abuse the non-Muslims in their countries and violate their every human right, but when they come to the West they demand, not just equal, but preferential treatment. Not only they do not abide by our rules, they make us abide by theirs. Most of the meet served in fast food restaurants, and schools in Europe is halal. Why? Its because the non-Muslims dont care. The Westerners feel obliged to comply because they are bond by their guilt. Here is where Muslims have their enemies by their collars. They know our weakness and our legal system and they take full advantage of that to strengthen their position. The vulnerability of fundamentalist Muslims is shame. Having lost their identity, Muslims seek their selfhood and pride in their religion. Criticizing Islam for Muslims is the most devastating experience. For them, if someone questioned and ridiculed islam is traumatic. fundamentalist Muslims are afraid of dialogue. When they talk about dialogue between civilizations they actually mean monologue. They want you to listen to their story, but they are not willing to listen to yours, much less to tolerate your probing questions. They demonstrated their intolerance for dialogue . They avoid situations where Islam can be seriously examined. ----- Original Message ---- From: sFe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; ppiindia@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:51:45 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Amiinn ya Allah. Memang bener Mas, mereka itu sekutu Iblis laknatullah, yang melihat kuman disebrang lautan, tapi gajah dipelupukk matanya mbah dono cs tdk kelihatan. Merasa sudah berhasil dengan ajaran "kasihannya" kacian beneran deh. Ternyata nafsu dengki dan kebenciannya menguap juga kepermukaan. kepada Muslimin/mah ingatlah : "bertakwalah kepada Allah dan janganlah kamu menuruti (keinginan) orang-orang kafir dan orang-orang munafik. Sesungguhnya Allah adalah Maha Mengetahui lagi Maha Bijaksana, dan ikutilah apa yang diwahyukan Tuhanmu kepadamu. Sesungguhnya Allah adalah Maha Mengetahui apa yang kamu kerjakan, dan bertawakkallah kepada Allah. Dan cukuplah Allah sebagai Pemelihara." (QS 33:1-3) wassalam, sFe hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id> wrote: Thank's atas infonya. Kita hanya bisa berdoa dan berharap semoga ALLAH SWT mengabulkan harapan dan doa saudara-saudara kita di Filipina khususnya dan negara lain pada umumnya. Semoga pula ALLAH SWT senantiasa melindungi dan merahmati kaum muslimin dan mukminin di seluruh dunia. Satu hal yang patut dicatat adalah ketika non muslim menjadi minoritas, mereka akan menunjukkan dan menampilkan "cinta kasih". Namun, ketika mereka mayoritas, akan jelas terlihat bahwa mereka adalah sekutu iblis laknatullah (al:diskriminasi, stigma teroris, menghalangi pendirian masjid, etnis cleansing dsb). Salam keprihatinan M. Hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id ----- Original Message ----- From: sFe To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] .com ; debat_agama_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com ; al-ukhuwah-islamiya [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] com ; rm_danardono@ yahoo.de ; mnabdurrahman@ yahoo.co. id ; abu.zubair1973@ gmail.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com ; thecaesar_tingtong@ yahoo.com ; bening_hatisuci@ yahoo.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com ; ndhutabarat@ yahoo.de ; hakim ; bambang.arum@ snsgroup. co.id ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:23 PM Subject: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Muslim Filipina Berharap Undang-Undang Anti-Diskriminasi Segera Disahkan Selasa, 27 Nov 07 15:54 WIB Warga Muslim Filipina kini sedang berharap-harap cemas, akankah wakil rakyat di negeri itu mau mengesahkan undang-undang anti-diskriminasi. Karena keberadaan undang-undang ini secara tidak langsung akan berpengaruh bagi kehidupan mereka sebagai warga minoritas di negara yang mayoritas penduduknya beragama Katolik itu. Seorang pedagang di Manila, Abdulsali Daud berharap anggota legislatif mengesahkan draft undang-undang itu menjadi undang-undang. "Undang-undang itu akan sangat membantu kami, " ujarnya. Undang-undang anti-diskriminasi mengatur bahwa diskriminasi terhadap warga Muslim, kelompok etnis minoritas dan suku-suku tertentu, merupakan tindakan kriminal. Institusi apapun, seperti restoran, pusat berbelanjaan, sekolah, perusahaan maupun media massa yang melakukan diskriminasi akan dikenai sanksi hukuman mulai dari denda, hukuman penjara sampai pencabutan izin usaha. Warga Muslim asal Moro, Sakib Maturan memiliki harapan yang sama dengan Abdulsali. "Tapi semua itu sangat tergantung pada perdebatan panjang dan tarik ulur di kongres kita, seperti yang terjadi pada undang-undang lainnya, " kata Maturan yang menjadi pedagang VCD di kota Manila. "Sekarang, saya hanya berharap mereka memberikan perhatian pada undang-undang ini, " sambungnya. Sebelumnya, Kongres Filipina sudah sering menerima pengajuan draft undang-undang anti-diskriminasi, namun tidak pernah mendapatkan pengesahan di tingkat komite. Warga Muslim di Filipina, selama ini kerap menjadi korban diskriminasi dan selalu diidentikkan dengan teroris. "Kami dipandang sebelah mata. Kami disebut 'teroris', 'tukang meledakkan bom', 'pembunuh' dengan begitu mudahnya hanya karena kami Muslim, " kata Abdulsali. Warga Muslim, tambahnya, banyak yang sulit mendapatkan pekerjaan hanya karena latar belakang agama mereka, meskipun mereka memenuhi persyaratan untuk mendapatkan pekerjaan itu. Seorang politisi dan pengacara terkenal di Filipina Adel Abbas Tamamo mengecam, situasi yang dinilainya "sangat buruk dan sudah menjadi realita sehari-hari di Filipina. " (ln/iol). Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .yahoo.com Disclaimer: Although this message has been checked for all known viruses using Trend Micro InterScan Messaging Security Suite, Bukopin accept no liability for any loss or damage arising from the use of this E-Mail or attachments. Disclaimer: Although this message has been checked for all known viruses using Trend Micro InterScan Messaging Security Suite, Bukopin accept no liability for any loss or damage arising from the use of this E-Mail or attachments. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. 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