Jesus, you're complaining about the colonial period? It's 2006 for Christ's sake.
Why don't we add slavery to the conversation too? --- "Helio W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Haven't you ever read about what the US did to Guatemala, Haiti, > Phillipines, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Timor East, Chile and Brazil? > > OMG, at least europeans didn't deny the Colonialism period... > > > To answer to your question: I don't believe the world or even the ME > is safer now than before the invasion. Thousands of innocent Iraq > people ARE ALREADY DEAD because of the invasion and the country is in > chaos, on the verge of civil war. As already pointed out many times, > the place is the world's biggest terrorist recruitment center right > now... > > Are you sure the Taliban is on the defensive? After all the bombing, > they still seem to be causing a lot of trouble in Afhganistan. > > And what kind of "safer world" is this where military spending is INCREASING? > > > > On 6/13/06, Bob Calco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > ! > > ! I asked first and you didn't respond. I'll ask it again: > > ! > > ! "Will this "new government" work for Iraq people or for the > > interests > > ! of the US government and corporations?" > > ! > > ! You know the answer. > > > > No, actually I don't. Given the past, I'm almost inclined to believe > > they'll stab us in the back like everybody else. > > > > I would like them to be amenable to working with us and doing business > > with us. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as things are on > > the up and up. Granted, they often aren't, that's just the nature of > > politics. But I am not so cynical as to believe that they're no better > > off under the new regime than they were under Saddam. That so many > > left-leaning folks seem to disagree confirms what I've always thought > > about left-leaning folks. :) > > > > I still want to know which world, A or B, you'd prefer to live in. I > > choose B. > > > > - Bob > > > > ! > > ! > > ! On 6/13/06, Bob Calco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ! > Simple question for you Helio: > > ! > > > ! > Is Iraq and the world better off with: > > ! > > > ! > A.) Saddam in charge, still funding terror bombers in Gaza and > > ! > subverting UN sanctions with the help of his buddies in the French > > ! > government and elsewhere in the UN power structure; Zarqawi > > ! alive and > > ! > roaming about freely; Al Qaeda with a potential, if not real, > > friend > > ! > in power in Iraq, willing to scheme against the free world; Libya > > ! > secretly and unbeknownst to just about everybody developing > > ! WMDs; the > > ! > world still thinks we talk the talk of democracy, but don't walk > > the > > ! > walk, let alone promote it in other parts of the world when our > > ! > economic interests don't seem aligned. > > ! > > > ! > B.) New government elected by the Iraqi people (certainly not of > > our > > ! > choosing, but at least elected) and negotiated between > > ! Iraqis despite > > ! > sectarian strife; Saddam on trial, his sons neutralized; Zarqawi > > ! > feeding worms; Al Qaeda on the defensive; Libya turning over a new > > ! > leaf and handing over their weapons program; dictators and mullahs > > ! > actively worrying that we take all this democracy talk > > ! seriously, and > > ! > in a panic over the spread thereof in their own backyard. > > ! > > > ! > Take your pick. Thanks to America's actions, we live in the > > ! real World > > ! > B, but you are free like many on this list to continue living in > > the > > ! > long-gone World A if you please. > > ! > > > ! > We still have problems in Iran and North Korea, not to > > ! mention here at > > ! > home, and I don't know how they are going to play out, but > > ! in general > > ! > I can't yet see everything we've done so far as purely bad and > > ! > ill-conceived, no matter how hard some people seem to want to > > paint > > ! > them that way. > > ! > > > ! > - Bob > > ! > > > ! > ! -----Original Message----- > > ! > ! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ! > ! [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helio W. > > ! > ! Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:50 PM > > ! > ! To: ProFox Email List > > ! > ! Subject: Re: [OT] What does Sen Biden really mean? > > ! > ! > > ! > ! So the US is going to put a democratically elected government in > > ! > Iraq. > > ! > ! Will this "new government" work for Iraq people or for > > ! the interests > > ! > ! of the US government and corporations? Please don't be naive nor > > ! > ! consider me a fool by saying that both things can be acomplished > > ! > ! simutaneously. > > ! > ! > > ! > ! > > ! > ! On 6/13/06, Bob Calco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > ! > > ! > ! > ! Bob, do you really believe the US never intervened in other > > ! > ! > countries > > ! > ! > ! for economic interests? > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > Who said that? Not I. > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > Clearly it is in our economic interest to have a regime in > > Iraq > > ! > that > > ! > ! > isn't pro-terror, anti-United States, with delusions of > > ! > ! being the next > > ! > ! > Nebuchadnezzar. It is moreover in our economic interest to > > ! > ! ensure that > > ! > ! > long-term, all despotic regimes in the middle east are > > ! > ! toppled and/or > > ! > ! > otherwise replaced by democratically elected governments and > > ! > control > > ! > ! > of the education of the Arab "man in the street" is wrested > > from > > ! > the > > ! > ! > hate-filled religious fanatics who fund and breed fodder > > ! > ! for Al Qaeda. > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > That hasn't always been so, sadly. We have funded those > > regimes > > ! > and > > ! > ! > propped them or indirectly allowed them to be propped up > > ! > ! for the sake > > ! > ! > of "cheap oil" and our policy in Iraq has them all more or > > less > > ! > ! > shaking their boots and flipping out. This notion that our > > ! > economic > > ! > ! > interests were served better by dictators with a heavy > > ! hand rather > > ! > ! > than free societies is what has changed in our outlook > > ! since 9/11. > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > I would like to point out that the claim that we invaded > > ! > ! for cheap oil > > ! > ! > was precisely backward. It was for the sake of cheap oil > > ! > ! that we never > > ! > ! > cleaned that rats nest in the first place. Now that oil is > > ! > ! a bit more > > ! > ! > expensive maybe the lunacy of that argument can be > > ! shown for what > > ! > it > > ! > ! > always was. The people who were fighting for cheap oil were > > ! > ! the people > > ! > ! > who fought against us and still seem to think the world > > ! would be a > > ! > ! > better place with Saddam in power. > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > For France and certain elements in other European > > ! > ! countries, it was in > > ! > ! > their economic interest to keep Saddam in place and > > ! > ! eventually to get > > ! > ! > the sanctions lifted for Chirac's buddy. I don't begrudge them > > ! > their > > ! > ! > rational self-interest, but I note sadly that in light of > > their > > ! > ! > unseamly involvment in the oil-for-food scandal, none of > > ! > ! our armchair > > ! > ! > patriots here seem the least offended that what really > > ! lie beneath > > ! > ! > their opposition to our military engagement was little more > > than > > ! > ! > kickbacks and bribes, not the lofty principles > > ! articulated by that > > ! > ! > fraud de Villepin in his passionate knife-in-the-back of > > ! > ! Colin Powell > > ! > ! > at the UN. > > ! > ! > > > ! > ! > The higher gas prices that have resulted were not in our short > > ! > term > > ! > ! > economic interests, and hence were contrary to the short term > > ! > ! > political interests of the Republican party and President > > Bush. > > ! > They > > ! > ! > have exacted their toll, and may give power back to the > > ! Democrats > > ! > in > > ! > ! > November. But if we stay the course, long term the ME will > > ! > ! be a better > > ! > ! > place because we took action that in the big scheme of > > ! things will > > ! > ! > redound to the positive, though that doesn't mean nothing > === message truncated === **** New Lower Prices ***** Horse Racing Photos at http://michaelmadigan.exposuremanager.com/ _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
