And I finally pretty much agree with you. Works come out of salvation but are not what defines it. I am aware of the passages you wrote and I contend that neither affects salvation by grace alone - which was the actual topic. Just please keep in mind that most people (almost everyone actually) submits their beliefs in a thread like this without putting up a treatise on every aspect or issue related to it. You don't need to suggest that I don't know the topic exceptionally well because I don't put up a 15,000 word dissertation on it. Salvation is by faith alone and yes IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
Geoff Flight General Manager Sustainable Resources Industry Training Pty Ltd 58 Norrie Ave Clovelly Park 5042 P: +61 8 8277 6380 M: 0414 965 226 F: +61 8 8177 1290 W: www.srit.com.au E: [email protected] TAKE THE SURVEY! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/976V5JT -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Publius Maximus Sent: Monday, 8 November 2010 5:56 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] On christian mythology On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 6:38 AM, geoff <[email protected]> wrote: > You just asked one of the central questions of the Reformation - and got it > wrong. Salvation is by faith alone - not of works (eph 2: 8,9). And it > really IS that clear. True: salvation is by faith alone, and grace is sufficient. Works are, however, the outward manifestation of that salvation, rooted in the case of a truly saved person in love, such that if there are none, or a man's works contradict his faith, he needs to check his faith. And by logical extension, his salvation. Works don't save you, but a man who does no good works, or does them out of anything but love (e.g., some people do good works out of fear of damnation), is probably not saved, because he has not really accepted and internalized that grace. Or did you skip over the parts that say, e.g., "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:20) and "If a man says he loves God, but hates his brother, the same is a liar, and there is no truth in him" (1 John 4:20)? The proposition may be "that simple" but its implications are profound and by no means "simplistic." - Publius > Geoff Flight > General Manager > > Sustainable Resources Industry Training Pty Ltd > [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[email protected] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
