"But I think I am trying to tell you that your point of view does not fit very well into my perspectives"
Yes, our perspectives are different; from mine I still do not see why the sentence L.([ [ [ [ [ [ [)`'' (or L.([: [: [: [: [: [: [:)`'' for that matter) should affect one's preference for [: over @: or vice versa when programming or metaprogramming. Anyway, I am not aware of any significant issues related to avoiding [: ; so, I would welcome any specific instances, illustrating your perspectives, strongly suggesting to the contrary. As somebody allegedly did not say "when the facts change, I change my mind." On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > I believe that I don't have to "use" a fork for the fork to exist. > (But what does "use" mean, for a symbolic expression?) So, anyways, > the [ [ [ [ [ [ [ sequence in ([ [ [ [ [ [ [)`'' is actually three > forks: ([ [ ([ [ ([ [ [))). > > On a related note, is + invoked in the sentence +/'' (or in related > sentences)? [Or is it evoked?] > > Something similar to my above expressions happens with verbs used in > special code, and with verbs passed to some adverbs and conjunctions. > Or, for that matter, if we look at the implementation closely enough, > for expressions like 1 2 3 + 4 5 6. (If I recall correctly, '+' is > just an ascii character which jtva() uses, along with information > about rank and argument storage format, when deciding which code to > run on its arguments). > > Anyways, I do not think I'm trying to tell you that you should think > of yourself as being wrong in any absolute sense. But I think I am > trying to tell you that your point of view does not fit very well into > my perspectives and my ways of thinking about J. (All too often, we > use "truth" to identify contexts, but sometimes this shorthand makes > talking about other contexts a subtle and elusive thing.) > > Thanks, > > -- > Raul > > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 5:28 PM, Jose Mario Quintana > <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am still somewhat confused, where is the fork then? You are not > > referring ( [ [ [ [ [ [ [)`'' as a fork. Are you? You are not > considering > > forks that are not invoked (such as the one in the sentence '[ [ ['). > Are > > you? Maybe you are, but in that case the [: vs @: argument would be mute > > or, alternatively, I could say " A teaser cap is the exception to the > rule, > > [: is the only verb that is not invoked when is the leading verb in > > a fork that is invoked" instead. (I am afraid we might be starting to > > split hairs though.) > > > > > > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 4:52 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> All [ > >> > >> None of the [ verbs receive any arguments. > >> > >> The only verb which does anything, in that sentence, is L. > >> > >> FYI, > >> > >> -- > >> Raul > >> > >> > >> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Jose Mario Quintana > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Which one ( L.([ [ [ [ [ [ [)`'' ) ? > >> > > >> > On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [ > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Raul > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Jose Mario Quintana > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > I am afraid these examples might be too deep for me. For instance, > >> >> > presumably in your last example there is a leading verb in a fork > >> which > >> >> is > >> >> > not invoked. If so, which one is that verb? > >> >> > > >> >> > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:50 AM, Raul Miller < > [email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Jose Mario Quintana > >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> > I do not have to wonder: if there are no teasers; the remaining > >> caps > >> >> (if > >> >> >> > any) are whistle-blowers. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What is a whistle blower? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> L.([: [: [: [: [: [: [:)`'' > >> >> >> 7 > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > In my mind there is an important difference: this ambivalence > of - > >> is > >> >> the > >> >> >> > rule rather than the exception for primitive verbs; most of them > >> are > >> >> >> > ambivalent and for good reasons. A teaser cap is the exception > to > >> the > >> >> >> > rule, [: is the only verb that is not invoked when is the > leading > >> verb > >> >> >> in a > >> >> >> > fork, for no compelling reason (again, from my viewpoint). > >> >> >> > >> >> >> That also depends on the specific instance of a fork. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> L.([ [ [ [ [ [ [)`'' > >> >> >> 7 > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I am also sympathetic to your point. I did not mean to > reignite a > >> >> >> > controversy that has been discussed too many times. I was just > >> >> pointing > >> >> >> > out some of my reasons to Linda for avoiding [: teasers since > she > >> has > >> >> >> > previously expressed her own reasons for avoiding @: . I think > one > >> >> >> should > >> >> >> > adopt a style that makes oneself more comfortable and presumably > >> more > >> >> >> > productive: avoiding none, avoiding one but not the other, or > even > >> >> >> avoiding > >> >> >> > both. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Yes, I like this reasoning. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> (I have not bothered quoting your message in full, because it's > >> >> >> available in the archives. If we were really concerned about > >> >> >> preserving context, every email message here would include a > >> canonical > >> >> >> link to its archived version.) > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Thanks, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Raul > >> >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> >> > >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
