This sounds good. Thank you,
-- Raul On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > @Raul, >> I think it's difficult to understand, and I am uncomfortable with that. > > So am I. I've merely copied the info from the J Dict as a holding > operation. No added value in that. The comma idea is a good one. No reason > not to do it. > > The improved rank info which Henry and I are putting together will be on > each primitive-page, not on the portal - at least not to start with. > Henry's proposal is mocked-up here: > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/eq_iac2 > Clicking the link (in this instance:) "Operates on y as a whole" links to > the relevant section in: > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/RankInfo > ...but currently this instance just points to a stub. Look elsewhere on the > RankInfo page to see the wording Henry's drafted already for other rank > instances. Note that monads and dyads will be treated separately, so there > won't be as many sections as the 22 distinct "ranks" (=rank triples?) > you've identified. > > Once completed, Henry is going to try it out with his students. Meanwhile > I'm going to hold-off making improvements to the NuVoc portal itself. Then, > it won't surprise me if the final material isn't adaptable to the portal > too. > > Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this in essence the same thing as > you're proposing? > > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I doubt many will see it, the way you currently have rank information >> on NuVoc. But for people who do stumble over it (possibly if referred >> by others), I think it's difficult to understand, and I am >> uncomfortable with that. >> >> Here's an example page, though: >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> "scalar" rank 0, 0 0 >> >> "scalar functions" include things like add and subtract. These operate >> independently on individual numbers (or individual characters or >> individual boxes), except that when combining arguments missing >> trailing dimensions are achieved through repetition. In other words: >> >> 1 + 2 3 4 >> 3 4 5 >> gives the same result as >> 1 1 1 + 2 3 4 >> 3 4 5 >> >> In the first example, here, we have an array with three elements and >> another array with no dimension at all (single numbers are different >> from lists of numbers, if you want a list of just one number do >> something like (,1)). >> >> Similarly, >> 10 100 1000 - i. 3 2 >> 10 9 >> 98 97 >> 996 995 >> >> Here, the list on the left does not have a second dimension, so when >> matched up against a two column argument you get the effect of having >> two columns by repeating each number. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This is slightly repetitive, but I think that the repetition can be >> worth it, for some readers. Similarly, I think separating the monadic >> rank from the dyadic rank with a comma would be a good thing. >> >> But if you have a problem with this approach, I would love to understand >> it. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Raul >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > @Raul -- I think what you're proposing is in line with Henry's proposals >> > (see earlier thread), which I'm in-process of implementing. But these >> will >> > show on individual pages, not the NuVoc portal page. >> > >> > Trouble is, I don't seriously believe in rank information on the NuVoc >> > portal -- much less the "mu mv mu" -stuff for adverbs and conjunctions (I >> > originally had: ? ? ?). I just did it as a service to people who prize >> it. >> > >> > @Joe - I've given up on J beginners with an APL background. They've >> either >> > all ditched APL for J by now, or they never will. :-~ >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Joe Bogner <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> Connecting two threads -- Ian wrote this here: >> >> http://jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2014-January/034769.html >> >> >> >> > Thus, in the first year of learning J, I unconsciously conjectured >> Rank >> >> > didn't matter -- for most purposes. You could intuit most problems, >> ones >> >> > that don't emerge much for rank 3 arrays or less. In a lifetime of APL >> >> I'd >> >> > got away without bothering my head about verb rank. >> >> >> >> This has been my experience as well in my first year. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > Looking at your current nuvoc page, I see 22 distinct "ranks". The >> >> > most common rank entries are _ _ _ (27 of those) and 0 0 0 (26 of >> >> > those). Actual numeric values are limited to 0, 1, 2 and _. and there >> >> > are also a variety of abstract values (mv, mu, lv, rv, lu, ru). >> >> > >> >> > So one observation is that the casual user will not understand that >> >> > 'mv' means "the rank of the monadic definition of verb argument v". >> >> >> >> I think I understand the simple case of rank (at the wikipedia page >> >> level[1]). I like the suggestion on somehow clarifying the differences >> >> between the 22 possibilities. >> >> >> >> I also wonder if something really direct "verb rank matters most in >> >> the following situations..." would be helpful. If it's mostly rank 4+ >> >> arrays, then the complexity of the different cases may not be >> >> encountered too frequently. This quote comes to mind: >> >> >> >> http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/perlis78.htm >> >> In APL, what flashes through your mind is a cascade of operations: >> >> chasing data through arrays, out of the other end of which come — >> >> limping and bruised, you know — seven numbers. After having built up >> >> arrays of rank eight and coming perilously close to a workspace full >> >> out from the other end comes these seven numbers — and they’re pulled >> >> out almost painfully — and you say to yourself, “My God, that’s >> >> wonderful! That’s a mechanism!” >> >> >> >> If that's what those 22 cases are intended to support, I and many >> >> other beginners to APL may have a long journey to go before it >> >> matters. Beginners to J with an APL background are likely a different >> >> story. Is NuVoc targeted more so at either one? >> >> >> >> >> >> [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank_(J_programming_language) >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
