This is a bug, it should report something like, assuming wh was the
offending command.
|wh : command not found
: wd
| (wd ::(''"_)'qer') (13!:8)3
the top line came from wd'qer'
the rest came from the j engine.
fix will be available in the next update. Thanks.
On Feb 26, 2015 2:54 AM, "Raul Miller" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hmm...
>
> First off, note that 13!:8 signals an error, and its optional left
> argument is the text of the signaled error.
>
> Second, note that in this context, the sentence wd ::(''"_) 'qer'
> produces the result 'wh : command not found' and that was after the
> signaled instance, so it's likely that 'wd : command not found: wd'
> came from that same sentence.
>
> In other words, this looks like version drift in j8's implementation
> of wd along with something less than ideal in the error reporting
> mechanism (which should be indicating an error in the wh command when
> signalling that error - the dual appearance of 'wd' was misleading).
>
> And, if I strip out the two wh statements from the definition of
> GETURL, trying test'' again gives me a popup dialog.
>
> Unfortunately, there's no event handlers for the buttons on that
> popup, so it's inert, and shutting it down requires either shutting
> down J or running a sentence such as wd 'pclose'
>
> So you'll probably want to spend a little time reading the docs on wd.
>
> Currently, that seems to mean:
>
> J602:
> http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/wd.htm
> http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/wd_commands.htm
>
> J701:
> http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/user/wd_commands.htm
>
> J8:
> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Guides/Window%20Driver
>
> With the http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Guides/J8%20Standalone example
> apparently reflecting an early version of J8's wd.
>
> Perhaps it would be best to update the J8 Standalone page by removing
> the wh commands from that example? But of course there are other
> problems here which also deserve some attention.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Vijay Lulla <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > I tried the example listed on this page but I'm getting errors (I had
> > problems with wh so I replaced them with wd). Specifically, I get
> >
> > test ''
> > |wd : command not found: wd
> > | (wd ::(''"_)'qer') (13!:8)3
> >
> > However, if I type wd on my ide session I get
> > wd
> > 3 : 0"1
> > smoutput^:(1<Debugwd_jqtide_) y
> > 'r c l p n'=. wd1 (,y);(#,y);(,2);(,0)
> > select. r
> > case. 0 do.
> > EMPTY
> > case. _1 do.
> > memr p,0,n
> > case. _2 do.
> > _2 [\ <;._2 memr p,0,n
> > case. do.
> > if. d=. Debugwd_jqtide_ do.
> > smoutput^:(1=Debugwd_jqtide_) y
> > smoutput '**ERROR**'
> > Debugwd_jqtide_=: d [ e=. wd ::(''"_) 'qer' [ Debugwd_jqtide_=: 0
> > smoutput e
> > e (13!:8) 3
> > else.
> > (wd ::(''"_) 'qer') (13!:8) 3
> > end.
> > end.
> > )
> >
> > Details for J are:
> > JVERSION
> > Engine: j803/2014-10-19-11:11:11
> > Library: 8.03.10
> > Qt IDE: 1.3.1/5.3.2
> > Platform: Darwin 64
> > Installer: J803 install
> > InstallPath: /users/v/code/apl/j64-803
> >
> > How do I resolve this error?
> > Thanks,
> > Vijay.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:27 AM, chris burke <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>> Has anyone built a standalone Mac app using JQt?
> >>
> >> Please see http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Guides/J8%20Standalone
> >>
> >> On 25 February 2015 at 06:09, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> @Henry -- thanks for your comments. Great!
> >>>
> >>> IMO this is just the sort of discussion I would like to see aired in
> >>> public. Though maybe do the more philosophical stuff in Chat?
> >>> Ideally I would like a summary of the J community's findings
> >>> documented on a Jwiki page for wider consumption.
> >>>
> >>> Further comments in-line…
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Henry Rich <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>> > We should take this off-group, but I'm replying in public because if
> I'm
> >>> > wrong I would like to be corrected (and I'm only an amateur
> >>> statistician):
> >>>
> >>> That's exactly why I'm appealing to the forum too.
> >>> …To the annoyance of Real Statisticians, no doubt, because this must
> >>> be elementary stuff to them.
> >>> But Wikipedia -- which you'd expect to give simple answers to simple
> >>> questions which laypeople want to ask and need to ask -- approaches
> >>> the whole issue like a cat circling a bowl of hot porridge.
> >>> …If you're a layperson, just try working out how to score the "Lady
> >>> Tasting Tea" experiment from these pages…
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_test
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_distribution
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_trial
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_process
> >>>
> >>> As a Human Factors *engineer* -- I've been a professional *user* of
> >>> hypothesis-testing but an amateur Statistician.
> >>> …Or should that be Probabilist? Or even Epistemologist?
> >>>
> >>> Plus… now I'm retired, I'm getting rusty.
> >>>
> >>> Plus… I can't find precise enough documentation of JAL verb:
> binomialprob.
> >>> Like… what's the semantics of the 3rd entry of (y) (styled "minimum
> >>> number of successes (s)") when y has only 3 entries? Can it be called
> >>> "minimum" any more? What I've concluded, after a bit of RTFC plus a
> >>> few idiot tests, is:
> >>>
> >>> (binomialprob 0.5,N,s) -: (binomialprob 0.5,N,s,N)
> >>>
> >>> Plus… has this doggie got 2 tails or just 1??
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > I think you are calling binomialprob correctly but I have some
> >>> objections to
> >>> > your use of the result.
> >>> >
> >>> > 1. I think your rejectH0 should use 1 - -: CONFIDENCE instead of
> >>> > 1-CONFIDENCE.
> >>> >
> >>> > The question is, "How likely is a result as weird as I am seeing,
> >>> assuming
> >>> > H0?" You should not bias "weird" by assuming that weird results
> will be
> >>> > correct guesses - they could just as likely be incorrect guesses. To
> >>> ensure
> >>> > that you reject 95% of the purely-chance deviations of a certain
> size,
> >>> that
> >>> > 95% should be centered around the mean, not loaded toward one side.
> >>>
> >>> The "1-tail-or-2?" question -- or so I thought at first.
> >>> But it's deeper than that. It's much more serious. Serious enough to
> >>> be the key issue for me.
> >>> Which is precisely why I want to be *sure*. Sure enough to argue my
> >>> case to a determined layperson. Not merely make an inspired guess, as
> >>> most people would in an industrial situation (…knowing no one else
> >>> knows enough statistics to dare to challenge you!)
> >>>
> >>> What I understand @Henry to be saying is: should the 5% area under the
> >>> binomial distribution curve, which sets the pass/fail threshold, be
> >>> shared equally between both tails? Even if one tail happens to be in
> >>> fairyland?
> >>>
> >>> What I mean by that last remark is…
> >>> If The Lady Tasting Tea (TLTT) gets every trial *wrong*, then she's
> >>> *not* a monkey flipping a fair coin. It's a very biased coin!
> >>> She is sending a strong signal that she can be depended upon (…with X%
> >>> confidence) to make the wrong decision.
> >>> But I don't want to credit her this as evidence to support her claim
> >>> she can tell the difference (…at least, not tell it correctly).
> >>> This is what makes TLTT different from detecting a biased coin by
> >>> repeated tosses.
> >>>
> >>> What's to do?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > are there really people who think optical might be better than USB??
> >>>
> >>> Oh-ho-ho! -- yes, they can still be found.
> >>> Hi-Fi buffs have not become extinct, and the (undead?) audio industry
> >>> still lives off their lifeblood.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > This is digital communication, no? 44K samples/sec, 2 channels, 20
> >>> bits/sample,
> >>> > needs 2Mb/sec max out of 480Mb/sec rated USB speed... how could that
> not
> >>> be
> >>> > enough?
> >>>
> >>> My interlocutor claims it's like the group was there, in his front
> >>> room, playing "just for him".
> >>> Now this guy is an intelligent chap, a developer of digital musical
> >>> instruments and a sound engineer as well as being an accomplished
> >>> musician. He sends me two MP3s (…yes, lossy MP3s!) to support his
> >>> claim. I drop these into Audacity and inspect the waveform at very
> >>> fine detail and I cannot for the life of me detect any difference.
> >>> So I know, as sure as God made little Apples, that I'm not going to
> >>> *hear* any difference.
> >>> But I've got lo-fi ears. In fact I'm half-deaf. Most of what I hear I
> >>> imagine. Mostly I get it right with people (I think…) But I don't know
> >>> what subliminal cues I'm using to do so. It's the "clever Hans"
> >>> effect.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe there are people who *can* tell the difference? But from my
> >>> pondering the figures, like you have, plus eyeballing the waveforms,
> >>> we're talking about magical superpowers here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > It was ever thus... when I last looked at this sort of thing, 20
> years
> >>> back,
> >>> > the debate was whether big fat expensive cables would make a
> difference.
> >>> > Bob Pease, a respected analog engineer, pointed out that it was
> >>> impossible,
> >>> > and James Randi had a bet that no one could discern $7000 cables from
> >>> > ordinary speaker wire, but still the non-EEs have their
> superstitions...]
> >>>
> >>> That's around the time my son was spending all his pocket-money on big
> >>> fat speaker cables and gold-plated jack-plugs.
> >>> Now he's teaching a Theory of Knowledge course (…yes, Epistemology!)
> >>> at a school in Hong Kong. He is greedy to get his hands on my little
> >>> program, and dispel a few lingering superstitions masquerading as
> >>> received wisdom about science.
> >>>
> >>> I want to package it up and send it to him, but I don't want to ask
> >>> him to install J on his Mac because not only will he grouse like heck
> >>> about fairy software but it will discourage him sharing the app with
> >>> his colleages, who share his sentiments.
> >>>
> >>> I know how to package up a standalone Mac app in J602, but J602 and my
> >>> packaged apps no longer work out-of-the-box on the Mac under Yosemite
> >>> (it's to do with 32-bit Java). Has anyone built a standalone Mac app
> >>> using JQt? If so I'd dearly love to see a monkey-see monkey-do page on
> >>> Jwiki. I'll write one myself, but it'll be a year before I can get
> >>> round to it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > 2. Why 95%? I would fear that someone who is thinking about optical
> >>> cable
> >>> > would rest uneasy with a 5-10% chance that they have not spent
> enough on
> >>> > quality audio. Why not simply report, "A monkey with a coin to toss
> >>> would
> >>> > do as well as you y% of the time. Most researchers accept results as
> >>> > significant only if the monkey would do as well less than 5% of the
> time.
> >>> > Take more samples if you want less uncertainty."
> >>>
> >>> 95% is just for the sake of argument. 99% is there as an option. IMO
> >>> more options are neither necessary nor advisable.
> >>> The number of trials can be varied too. I'd like to offer 10 or 20
> >>> trials. But 20 gets tedious, so I'm offering the option to give up
> >>> when you're bored and score the number you've done.
> >>> (This is an app for discretionary users -- we're not paying our
> >>> subjects $10 a session.)
> >>>
> >>> Anything under 7 trials fails to reject H0 however many successes. But
> >>> that's dependent on the value of CONFIDENCE and how it's to be
> >>> applied. But only to make a difference of 1 or maybe 2 trials.
> >>> I'm finding in practice that with such a low number of trials as 10,
> >>> anything short of 100% correct is statistical hairsplitting when it
> >>> comes to rejecting H0. With 20 trials there's more leeway: you're
> >>> allowed to get 3 or 4 wrong before the app rubbishes you.
> >>>
> >>> As for your wording: it's theoretically sound, but a trifle insulting.
> >>> Performing musicians have sizeable egos and wouldn't like to be rated
> >>> along with performing monkeys. :-)
> >>>
> >>> Ian
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> >>>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
