this didn't seem to work in beta 12 (latest all in one installer)



----- Original Message -----
From: Henry Rich <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Early assignment WAS: Non-mutable arrays

Yes, this is executed in-place.

In general, an assignment to a name whose value is not in use in another 
name causes that value to become eligible for in-place execution (with 
the possibility of early assignment) as long as the execution stack 
contains nothing beyond the value to be assigned.

a=: ('b' ,~ 4,~])a =: 1 2 3    NB. in place

(a=: ('b' ,~ 4,~])a =: 1 2 3) [ 1    NB. not in place

Henry Rich





On 10/4/2016 9:28 PM, 'Pascal Jasmin' via Programming wrote:
> I made different suggestions in my beta post. namely, this expression should 
> also be optimized:
>
>
> a=: ('b' ,~ 4,~])a =: 1 2 3
>
> if possible, early assignment should also apply in scripts (even if through 
> tacit expressions).
>
> In general though, I think the advice "assign to new name to be safe", works 
> ok, but above line in console can be edited and reapplied with consistent 
> results.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Henry Rich <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 7:25 PM
> Subject: [Jprogramming] Early assignment WAS:  Non-mutable arrays
>
> The whole point of operation in place is to avoid having to copy an
> in-placeable argument; copying the argument would not be a good solution.
>
> After hearing the screams and dodging the dead cats, I have some proposals:
>
> 1. Early assignment (which is what we'll call the act of assigning an
> intermediate value to a name that is about to be reassigned) will apply
> only for sentences executed from an explicit definition.  That will
> eliminate the most likely source of confusion, which is erroneous
> sentences typed into the console during debugging and exploration.
>
> For discussion here:
>
> 2. Early assignment could be disabled for sentences executed between
> try. and catch.  This would apply only to sentences from the same
> execution that contains the try.  Verbs called from within the try.
> block will continue to have early assignment enabled as specified by the
> setting of 9!:52''.
>
> 3. Error message text could be modified to indicate that an early
> assignment occurred.  I worry about this because existing code might
> rely on the text of messages.
>
> Henry Rich
>
>
> On 10/4/2016 3:01 PM, Louis de Forcrand wrote:
>> I second Raul; the behaviour described is very counter-intuitive. Maybe add 
>> a third setting to 9!:53 which copies a at the start of a tacit verb 
>> involving in place operations?
>>
>> Also, what is the current (j804) behaviour when an in-place ammend fails?
>> Since there's only one operation, if it fails a shouldn't be modified should 
>> it?
>> If so, copying a at the beginning of a tacit verb containing more than one 
>> in-place operation (IPO) should always be faster than the current 
>> implementation, since copying would only be needed when two or more IPOs 
>> take place.
>>
>> Louis
>>
>>> On 04 Oct 2016, at 07:15, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> When there are many verbs involved, it seems like the relative cost to
>>> make a copy of the original at the start should be minor.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Raul
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 10:52 PM, Henry Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The shape is just the tip of the iceberg.  If the verb in question were m},
>>>> there would be no way to restore (a).
>>>>
>>>> And in general, many in-place verbs may have executed before the error.  
>>>> The
>>>> original (a) may be long gone.
>>>>
>>>> If you foresee this as a problem, you should execute 9!:53(0) to turn off
>>>> early assignment.
>>>>
>>>> Henry Rich
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/3/2016 10:34 PM, Raul Miller wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two reasons to be concerned about the value of a in the error
>>>>> case.
>>>>>
>>>>> The minor one is error recovery. This is a simple example, and easy to
>>>>> understand. What happens, though, when someone uses try./catch. with a
>>>>> large code base? This issue would not be easy to isolate, nor will it
>>>>> be easy to understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bigger issue is the one you mentioned here: debugging. When
>>>>> debugging code which takes a long time to run, you will at times want
>>>>> to fix the issue and continue, rather than burning the time necessary
>>>>> to restart from the beginning.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, also, this seems like it will be hard to explain and at the same
>>>>> time distract from issues which are more important.
>>>>>
>>>>> But keep in mind that I am not recommending the (a=:0)](a) mechanism
>>>>> for this example. I made that suggestion for hypothetical cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am instead recommending that the shape of a be saved somewhere and
>>>>> that a have its shape set to what it originally was, in the error
>>>>> case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there some reason why you think that restoring a's shape in the
>>>>> error case is not a viable approach here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
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