Linda,

http://www.cs.trinity.edu/About/The_Courses/cs2322/jdoc/dict/dictf.htm
seems to be substantially the same.

I have not proofread the two for differences, but at worst they look
like they would be different early versions of the dictionary.

Thanks,

-- 
Raul


On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Linda Alvord <[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill, Could you make a copy of just page 80? When I printed it it is 
> impossible to read the final column in the curve of the page.
>
> Thanks, Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Programming [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf 
> Of bill lam
> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 10:12 PM
> To: Programming forum <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Jx 1.1 Release
>
> Raul is correct, as usual. The train N V N was not handled in the rule for 
> trident. Here is the previous pages for execution stack and trains. Monad and 
> dyad were checked in the first 3 rules. Rules for trident and bident were 
> near the bottom.
> https://i.imgur.com/2a3mBFS.jpg
>
>
> On Oct 13, 2017 8:28 AM, "Raul Miller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ah, it's from http://www.cs.trinity.edu/About/The_Courses/cs2322/jdoc/
>> dict/dictf.htm
>>
>> (Bill's link did not claim that that example was a trident, as near as
>> I can tell.)
>>
>> That said, I stand by my assertion that J would not treat (N V N) as a
>> trident.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Raul
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Jose Mario Quintana
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > That is not "my" list, check carefully Dan Bron's PS in the first
>> > link I provided or Bill's link earlier in this thread.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Some of your list of "all possible tridents and bidents" would only
>> >> be possible if other parsing rules were removed or evaded (monad,
>> >> dyad, adverb, conjunction).
>> >>
>> >> For example, the first one you list:
>> >> N0 V1 N2    noun x V1 y
>> >>
>> >> This would typically be a dyad, and I cannot think of any way for
>> >> it to be treated as a triad (it's true, of course, that when you
>> >> modify the interpreter it's true that you can alter it in any way
>> >> you see fit
>> >> - but it's difficult to think of this result as being J).
>> >>
>> >> Was that your intent, or am I missing something?
>> >>
>> >> (Or... if you really meant to be discussing not "J" but more "a
>> >> topic which might interest some people in the J community",
>> >> shouldn't this kind of discussion go on in a different forum?
>> >> Perhaps chat?)
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Raul
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Jose Mario Quintana
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > A common goal of the Jx trains and many of the Jx primitives and
>> foreign
>> >> > conjunction entities is to lift J's draconian (tacit)
>> >> > function-level restrictions.  Jx facilitates tacit verbs,
>> >> > adverbs, and conjunctions
>> to
>> >> act
>> >> > on nouns, verbs, adverbs and, conjunctions and produce nouns,
>> >> > verbs, adverbs and, conjunctions.  That is, almost any
>> >> type
>> >> > entity can act on any type entity to produce any type entity.
>> >> >
>> >> > The Jx trains are either completely new or extended
>> >> > implementations of current or former trains.  The Jx trains
>> >> > conform to the general
>> scheme of
>> >> > the Parse Table shown on page 2 of the Cheatsheet and the only
>> difference
>> >> > vs the current J Parse Table is the Trident parsing entry.
>> >> >
>> >> > This extra entry might have a potential negative effect in Jx's
>> >> performance
>> >> > vs J; after all, that was one of the reasons given for dropping
>> >> > the
>> >> Trains
>> >> > of the Golden Age (for reference I am including, at the end of
>> >> > this
>> >> post, a
>> >> > text version which most likely matches the one in the link that
>> >> > Bill provided earlier).  How important is the performance
>> >> > penalty?  I
>> would be
>> >> > surprised if it is significant; one could try to quantify it
>> >> > although
>> the
>> >> > usual caveats would apply (e.g., repeat the experiments several
>> >> > times
>> to
>> >> > confirm results).
>> >> >
>> >> > First, a few useful definitions follow to facilitate the
>> >> > discussion,
>> >> >
>> >> > o=. @:
>> >> > 'adv conj ver'=. _1 _2 _3 <@?: 0
>> >> > fix=. f. ver  NB. (a v) form
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > a v  <->  v(a)
>> >> >
>> >> > This form is non-compliant; thus, it is intrinsic only to Jx.
>> >> > One can
>> >> use
>> >> > this form, for instance, to produce easily arrays with single or
>> multiple
>> >> > boxed adverb arguments and verbs (or adverbs or conjunctions) can
>> >> > act
>> on
>> >> > the array.  For example, a single boxed adverb,
>> >> >
>> >> >    /<
>> >> > ┌─┐
>> >> > │/│
>> >> > └─┘
>> >> >
>> >> > and multiple boxed adverbs,
>> >> >
>> >> >    [:(/\<) (items < o fix o ":) (table < o fix o ":)]:
>> >> > ┌──┬───┬────────────────────────────────────────────────────
>> ──────────┐
>> >> > │/\│"_1│1 : (':'; '(((#~LF-.@e.])5!:5<''u'');,.y),.({.;}.)":x,y
>> u/x')~│
>> >> > └──┴───┴────────────────────────────────────────────────────
>> ──────────┘
>> >> >
>> >> > This form also helps to avoid quoting adverbs.  Apart from
>> >> > aesthetical effects (my aesthetics anyway), it allows the verb
>> >> > xi, which I have mentioned before, to refer directly to an adverb
>> >> > (or adverbs) within a sentence.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > x (a a) <-> (x a) a
>> >> >
>> >> > This form corresponds to the entry
>> >> >
>> >> > A0 A1     adv (x A0) A1
>> >> >
>> >> > of the Parse Table of the Golden Age.  To my knowledge, it has
>> >> > not
>> been
>> >> > fully implemented before.  Currently, J only works if the product
>> >> > of
>> (x
>> >> a)
>> >> > is a noun or a verb (there have been discussions about producing
>> >> > the
>> >> train
>> >> > if the product of (x a) is an adverb.  Jx implements that and
>> >> > also the
>> >> case
>> >> > when the product of (x a) is a conjunction.  This is very useful
>> >> > when writing tacit adverbs as a train of adverbs: if ((x a) a)
>> >> > produces the desired product then the adverb (a a) would work
>> >> > because (x (a a) <->
>> (x
>> >> a)
>> >> > a).  For example,
>> >> >
>> >> >     'items'  ((~ver) adv) /
>> >> > items/
>> >> >     'items' (((~ver) adv) /)
>> >> > items/
>> >> >
>> >> >     'items'  ('x~' (adverb :)) /
>> >> > items/
>> >> >     'items' (('x~' (adverb :)) \) items\
>> >> >
>> >> > The last line produces instead a syntax error in J.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > a c  <->  (c)a
>> >> >
>> >> > This form is non-compliant; thus, it is also intrinsic only to Jx.
>> Its
>> >> > motivation parallels the one for the form (a v  <->  v(a)).  For
>> >> example, a
>> >> > single boxed conjunction,
>> >> >
>> >> >    <adv (`/)
>> >> > ┌───┐
>> >> > │` /│
>> >> > └───┘
>> >> >
>> >> > and multiple boxed conjunctions,
>> >> >
>> >> >    [:(<adv") (< o fix o ": adv bind)]:
>> >> > ┌─┬─────────────┐
>> >> > │"│2 : 'x@(y"_)'│
>> >> > └─┴─────────────┘
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The Jx extensions of the corresponding Golden age entries,
>> >> >
>> >> > x (c a) y  <->  x c y a          :  C0 A1    conj (x C0 y) A1
>> >> > x (a c a) y  <->  (x a) c (y a)  :  A0 C1 A2 conj (x A0) C1 (y
>> >> > A2)
>> >> >
>> >> > deserve, in my opinion, a separate thread.  I will try to start
>> >> > one
>> >> during
>> >> > the weekend (time permitting).  Succinctly, the two trains (the
>> >> > first
>> >> one,
>> >> > in particular) are powerful enough that if they were restored in
>> >> official J
>> >> > interpreters then conjunctional tacit programming would be
>> >> > virtually complete as opposed to impossible.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope it helps,
>> >> >
>> >> > PS. I wish I had more time to read and respond to posts more
>> frequently;
>> >> > however, most of the time, I eventually respond if I feel I can
>> >> > still contribute.  Thank you for your patience.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Train Table of the Golden Age
>> >> >
>> >> > (see,
>> >> > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2009-
>> December/017146.html
>> >> > and http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2009-
>> >> December/017145.html
>> >> > )
>> >> >
>> >> > The following tables define all possible tridents and bidents,
>> >> > using italics to denote the optional left arguments of (ambivalent) 
>> >> > verbs:
>> >> >
>> >> > N0 V1 N2    noun x V1 y
>> >> > V0 V1 V2    verb (x V0 y) V1 (x V2 y)
>> >> > V0 V1 C2    conj V0 V1 (x C2 y)
>> >> > A0 V1 V2    adv (x A0) V1 V2
>> >> > C0 V1 V2    conj (x C0 y) V1 V2
>> >> > C0 V1 C2    conj (x C0 y) V1 (x C2 y)
>> >> > A0 A1 V2    conj (x A0) (y A1) V2
>> >> > A0 A1 A2    adv ((x A0) A1) A2
>> >> > C0 A1 A2    conj ((x C0 y) A1) A2
>> >> > N0 C1 N2    verb x (N0 C1 N2) y
>> >> > N0 C1 V2    verb x (N0 C1 V2) y
>> >> > N0 C1 A2    adv N0 C1 (x A2)
>> >> > N0 C1 C2    conj N0 C1 (x C2 y)
>> >> > V0 C1 N2    verb x (V0 C1 N2) y
>> >> > V0 C1 V2    verb x (V0 C1 V2) y
>> >> > V0 C1 A2    adv V0 C1 (x A2)
>> >> > V0 C1 C2    conj V0 C1 (x C2 y)
>> >> > A0 C1 N2    adv (x A0) C1 N2
>> >> > A0 C1 V2    adv (x A0) C1 V2
>> >> > A0 C1 A2    conj (x A0) C1 (y A2)
>> >> > A0 C1 C2    conj (x A0) C1 (x C2 y)
>> >> > C0 C1 N2    conj (x C0 y) C1 N2
>> >> > C0 C1 V2    conj (x C0 y) C1 V2
>> >> > C0 C1 A2    conj (x C0 y) C1 (y A2)
>> >> > C0 C1 C2    conj (x C0 y) C1 (x C2 y)
>> >> > N0 A1     verb x (N0 A1) y
>> >> > N0 C1     adv N0 C1 x
>> >> > V0 N1     noun V0 y
>> >> > V0 V1     verb x (or y) V0 V1 y
>> >> > V0 A1     verb x (V0 A1) y
>> >> > V0 C1     adv V0 C1 x
>> >> > A0 V1     adv (x A0) V1
>> >> > A0 A1     adv (x A0) A1
>> >> > A0 C1     adv (x A0) C1 x
>> >> > C0 N1     adv x C0 N1
>> >> > C0 V1     adv x C0 V1
>> >> > C0 A1     conj (x C0 y) A1
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 3:51 AM, Erling Hellenäs <
>> >> [email protected]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi all !
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I have a hard time finding the new rules among these old rules.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> While in the Jx description x and y denotes verbs, in Ken
>> >> >> Iversons description they denote nouns?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Take the bident a0 v1. According to Ken Iverson it should be
>> >> >> parsed
>> as
>> >> (x
>> >> >> a0) v1, while in Jx, using the same notation, it is parsed as
>> >> >> (v1
>> a0) y
>> >> ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Does Jx represent a new way of thinking about how these trains
>> >> >> should
>> >> be
>> >> >> parsed, which Ken Iverson did not have?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Erling Hellenäs
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Den 2017-10-12 kl. 04:09, skrev bill lam:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> As mentioned earlier, ancient J had a more complete set of
>> >> >>> rules for tridents and bidents. This is what availbale in J
>> >> >>> circa 1994 (23 years ago)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> https://i.imgur.com/OtBZZq1.jpg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> In the good old days, adverbs and conjunctions can be written
>> >> >>> without explicit definitions, albeit only very few can manage
>> >> >>> to do that.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Ср, 11 окт 2017, Erling Hellenäs написал(а):
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Hi all!
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I finally managed to understand Cloak. I then with interest
>> >> >>>> studied
>> >> these
>> >> >>>> new syntax rules:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> av  ↔ v(a)
>> >> >>>> x(a a)  ↔  (x a) a
>> >> >>>> ac  ↔  (c)a
>> >> >>>> x(c a) y  ↔  x c y a
>> >> >>>> x(a c a) y  ↔  (x a) c (y a)
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> It all seemed logical and nice. I just wonder about the
>> >> >>>> thoughts
>> >> behind.
>> >> >>>> What is the logic behind these rules?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I also wonder if there are any negative effects of having
>> >> >>>> these
>> rules.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Cheers,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Erling Hellenäs
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On 2017-09-30 23:27, Jose Mario Quintana wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> Jx 1.1 Release
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> A Jx v1.1 Extensions Guide, a J/Jx Cheatsheet, a Jx
>> >> >>>>> Assertions
>> script
>> >> >>>>> together with links to a Windows 64 bit dll, a Unix 64 bit so
>> >> binaries
>> >> >>>>> (without avx support) and the patch corresponding to the J806
>> source
>> >> >>>>> (beta-6) can be found at the link [0].
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Summary
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - Primitives
>> >> >>>>>       Added     =.. =:: $:: [. ]. ]: ".. `. &:.(*) ?:(*) i.. O.
>> >> >>>>>       Extended  ~ $.
>> >> >>>>>       Modified  " (*)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - Foreign
>> >> >>>>>       Added     104!:5 Unnamed Execution  102!:0/1 In-place
>> >> >>>>> Amend/Append (*)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - Trains
>> >> >>>>>       a v    Added
>> >> >>>>>       a a    Extended
>> >> >>>>>       c a    Resurrected and extended (*)
>> >> >>>>>       a c a  Resurrected and extended (*)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - Spelling
>> >> >>>>>       Names with Unicode characters
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> (*) New Jx 1.1 feature
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> This release introduces a modified primitive (") and, in
>> >> >>>>> theory,
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> >>>>> first time an incompatibility vs the official J counterpart
>> >> >>>>> (J806
>> >> >>>>> beta-6) ;
>> >> >>>>> however, in practice, it is highly unlikely to break any
>> >> >>>>> existent
>> >> code
>> >> >>>>> and
>> >> >>>>> doubters have an opportunity to test their code.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> This is a simple 1-decade-old example [1],
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>      ]`|."1 i.5 6
>> >> >>>>>    0  1  2  3  4  5
>> >> >>>>> 11 10  9  8  7  6
>> >> >>>>> 12 13 14 15 16 17
>> >> >>>>> 23 22 21 20 19 18
>> >> >>>>> 24 25 26 27 28 29
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> See also the threads [2, 3] for recent discussions.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> The rank of the verb ?: has been changed to 0 0 0 to make it
>> easier
>> >> to
>> >> >>>>> use.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Three venerable facilities are released:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - The conjunction (&:.), for the motivation, see the post [4]
>> >> >>>>> (see
>> >> also
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> post [5] both, its reference and the embedded discussion for
>> similar
>> >> >>>>> more
>> >> >>>>> recent ideas).
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> - 102!:0/1 In-place Amend/Append, be very careful (see [6]);
>> >> >>>>> if
>> you
>> >> do
>> >> >>>>> not
>> >> >>>>> know what to expect, play with their corresponding models instead.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> PS.  There are a couple of other goodies which will be
>> >> >>>>> documented
>> >> later.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> References
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [0] Jx 1.1 Release
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.2bestsystems.com/foundation/j/jx1.1
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [1] [Jprogramming] zig-zag order  Oleg Kobchenko
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2006-
>> November
>> >> >>>>> /004188.htm
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [2] [Jprogramming] How m"n shoulda been defined  Henry Rich
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2015-
>> August/0
>> >> >>>>> 42512.html
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [3] [Jprogramming] Jx version 1.0 release  Henry Rich
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2017-
>> August/0
>> >> >>>>> 48124.html
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [4] [Jforum] Wasted intermediate values  Jose Mario Quintana
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/general/2003-March/
>> >> 014488.html
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [5] [Jprogramming] Fold/reduce with initial value?  R.E. Boss
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2015-
>> February
>> >> >>>>> /041015.html
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> [6] [Jprogramming] Tacit J and indexed replacement  Jose
>> >> >>>>> Mario
>> >> Quintana
>> >> >>>>>       http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/programming/2014-
>> July/038
>> >> >>>>> 515.html
>> >> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----------
>> >> >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
>> >> forums.htm
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----------
>> >> >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
>> >> forums.htm
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> >> >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
>> forums.htm
>> >> >>
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/
>> forums.htm
>> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> --- For information about J forums see
>> >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>> >>
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -- For information about J forums see
>> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

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