Yes, typed a little fast.

sqrt33 = %:33.

Why does it not make sense?

Louis

> On 29 Jan 2018, at 18:35, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> What is sqrt33 here? (I would have guessed %:33 but that does not make
> sense to me.)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Raul
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I skipped a few steps there. With pencil and paper, I find that (using 
>> standard notation)
>> 
>> 2^(x+iy) = (1 +- sqrt(33)) / 2
>> 
>> Yet 2^(x+iy) = 2^x * 2^iy, and because the whole is real, 2^iy must be real.
>> 
>> Moreover, when y is such that 2^iy is real (when y is a multiple of Pi/log2) 
>> then
>> 
>> 2^iy
>> = exp(log2 * i*k*Pi/log2)
>> = exp(i*k*Pi)
>> = (-1)^k
>> 
>> We can see that,  because 2^x is positive, one of the roots of the 
>> polynomial corresponds to even k and the other to odd k.
>> 
>> Thus (with J’s ^. log)
>> 
>> x = 2 ^. (sqrt33 + (-1)^k)/2
>> y = k*Pi/log2
>> 
>> for any integer k describes the (countable) set of solutions.
>> 
>> They are indeed arranged in a zigzag pattern on two vertical lines, and the 
>> one real solution occurs when k = 0.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Louis
>> 
>>> On 29 Jan 2018, at 08:09, Louis de Forcrand <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Note that if the equation really is (in traditional notation)
>>> 
>>> 4^x - 2^x - 8 = 0
>>> 
>>> then it can be rewritten as
>>> 
>>> y^2 - y - 8 = 0, y = 2^x
>>> 
>>> and solved in closed form as well,
>>> yielding a countably infinite set of solutions aligned along one (or two) 
>>> vertical lines in the complex plane.
>>> (If I am not mistaken!)
>>> 
>>> Louis
>>> 
>>>> On 29 Jan 2018, at 07:19, Rob Hodgkinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> @Skip et al …
>>>> 
>>>> also apologies for my sill definitions, I should have used y inside the 
>>>> definitions not x (!!!), sorry if I confused the issue…
>>>> 
>>>> as in here for the first interpretation …
>>>> 
>>>> x,"0 (3 : '8+(2^y)-((2^2)^y)') x=:1.6+0.05*i.8
>>>> 
>>>> …/Rob
>>>> 
>>>>> On 29 Jan 2018, at 3:49 pm, Jose Mario Quintana 
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> In that case,
>>>>> 
>>>>> (X=. (8 + (2 ^ ]) - (2 ^ 2) ^ ])New (^:22) 1)
>>>>> 1.75372489
>>>>> 
>>>>> is a root,
>>>>> 
>>>>> (8 + (2 ^ ]) - (2 ^ 2) ^ ])X
>>>>> 0
>>>>> 
>>>>> but, it is not the only one,
>>>>> 
>>>>> (X=. (8 + (2 ^ ]) - (2 ^ 2) ^ ])New (^:22) 0.5j_0.5)
>>>>> 1.24627511j4.53236014
>>>>> 
>>>>> (8 + (2 ^ ]) - (2 ^ 2) ^ ])X
>>>>> 8.8817842e_16j7.72083702e_15
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hmm...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I had originally thought about calling out the (2^2)^x interpretation
>>>>>> as a possibility, because rejected that, because that would be better
>>>>>> expressed as 4^x
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But it's possible that Skip got the 1.75379 number from someone who
>>>>>> thought different about this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And, to be honest, it is an ambiguity in the original expression -
>>>>>> just one that I thought should be rejected outright, rather than
>>>>>> suggested.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Which gets us into another issue, which is that what one person would
>>>>>> think is obviously right is almost always what some other person would
>>>>>> think is obviously wrong... (and this issue crops up all over, not
>>>>>> just in mathematic and/or programming contexts).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Rob Hodgkinson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> @Skip
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Skip, I am a confused in your original post… your actual post read;
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ================================================
>>>>>>> What is the best iterative way to solve this equation:
>>>>>>> (-2^2^x) + (2^x) +8 =0
>>>>>>> then later to Raul,
>>>>>>> 0 = 8 + (2^x) - 2^2^x    NB. Is correct, and the answer is real
>>>>>>> The answer is close to 1.75379
>>>>>>> ================================================
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> However I suspect your original syntax was not J syntax (could it have
>>>>>> been math type syntax ?) as it differs on the J style right-to-left 
>>>>>> syntax
>>>>>> on the 2^2^x expression.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The 2 possible interpretations are shown below and only the Excel type
>>>>>> syntax seems to get close to your expected answer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> NB. Excel interpretation
>>>>>>> x,"0 (3 : '8+(2^x)-((2^2)^x)') x=:1.6+0.05*i.8
>>>>>>> 1.6        1.84185
>>>>>>> 1.65       1.28918
>>>>>>> 1.7        0.692946
>>>>>>> 1.75       0.0498772                NB. intercept seems close to your
>>>>>> expected value of 1.75379
>>>>>>> 1.8    _0.64353
>>>>>>> 1.85  _1.39104
>>>>>>> 1.9    _2.19668
>>>>>>> 1.95  _3.06478
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> NB. J style interpretation
>>>>>>> x,"0 (3 : '8+(2^x)-(2^2^x)') x=:1.6+0.05*i.8
>>>>>>> 1.6      2.85522
>>>>>>> 1.65    2.33325
>>>>>>> 1.7      1.74188
>>>>>>> 1.75    1.07063
>>>>>>> 1.8      0.307207                 NB. But in this model the intercept is
>>>>>> above 1.8, but this is the model that has been coded in responses to your
>>>>>> post ??
>>>>>>> 1.85  _0.562844
>>>>>>> 1.9    _1.5566
>>>>>>> 1.95  _2.69431
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please clarify, thanks, Rob
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 29 Jan 2018, at 12:48 pm, Jose Mario Quintana <
>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Moreover, apparently there is at least another solution,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ((-2^2^X) + (2^X) +8 ) [  X=. 2.9992934709539156j_13.597080425481581
>>>>>>>> 5.19549681e_16j_2.92973749e_15
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:28 PM, Jose Mario Quintana <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Are you sure?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> u New
>>>>>>>>> - (u %. u D.1)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ,. (8 + (2 ^ ]) - 2 ^ 2 ^ ])New (^:(<22)) 1
>>>>>>>>>     1
>>>>>>>>> 3.44167448
>>>>>>>>> 3.25190632
>>>>>>>>> 3.03819348
>>>>>>>>> 2.7974808
>>>>>>>>> 2.53114635
>>>>>>>>> 2.25407823
>>>>>>>>> 2.00897742
>>>>>>>>> 1.86069674
>>>>>>>>> 1.82070294
>>>>>>>>> 1.81842281
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (8 + (2 ^ ]) - 2 ^ 2 ^ ]) 1.81841595
>>>>>>>>> _8.21739086e_8
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (8 + (2 ^ ]) - 2 ^ 2 ^ ]) 1.75379
>>>>>>>>> 1.01615682
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> PS.  Notice that New is a tacit version (not shown) of Louis' VN
>>>>>> adverb.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 5:52 PM, Skip Cave <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Raul,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You had it right in the first place.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 0 = 8 + (2^x) - 2^2^x    NB. Is correct, and the answer is real
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The answer is close to 1.75379
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to know how to construct the Newton Raphson method using the
>>>>>>>>>> iteration verb N described in the link: http://code.jsoftware.
>>>>>>>>>> com/wiki/NYCJUG/2010-11-09
>>>>>>>>>> under "A Sampling of Solvers - Newton's Method"
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> N=: 1 : '- u % u d. 1'
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Skip
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Skip Cave
>>>>>>>>>> Cave Consulting LLC
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 4:38 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Eh... I *think* you meant what would be expressed in J as:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 = 8 + (2^x) - 2^2^x
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd probably try maybe a few hundred rounds of newton's method 
>>>>>>>>>>> first,
>>>>>>>>>>> and see where that leads.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> But there's an ambiguity where the original expression (depending on
>>>>>>>>>>> the frame of reference of the poster) could have been intended to 
>>>>>>>>>>> be:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 0 = 8 + (2^x) + _2^2^x
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> [if that is solvable, x might have to be complex]
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Raul
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 5:25 PM, Skip Cave <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> What is the best iterative way to solve this equation:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (-2^2^x) + (2^x) +8 =0
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Skip Cave
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cave Consulting LLC
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>> 
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