Here's an example of a definition for gerund:
http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/learning/14.htm
You might argue that the definition is informal -- like most of J --
but I do not think it's fair to say that they are not defined
anywhere.
--
Raul
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Dan Bron <j...@bron.us> wrote:
> I'm not sure gerunds are defined anywhere.
>
> But if they were, the phrasing might be "arrays of atomic representations",
> where the "atomic representation" characteristic is the most salient, and
> "array" has the normal meaning (and perhaps the usual question of whether a
> scalar is an array?).
>
> We often (informally) think of gerunds as vectors, because we compose them
> with ` whose product is defined to be vector, and consume them with e.g. @.
> whose (left input) is most useful when vector. But that's no reason to
> define gerunds as vectors, any more than to define selections as vectors,
> because we compose them with , , and consume them with e.g. { whose (left
> input) is frequently vector. Or saying 'string' is a string but 's' is not.
>
> Of course, in some contexts, 's' is not considered a string. So perhaps you
> are suggesting that "gerunds are are arrays of atomic representations, where
> the shape of the array has meaning"? If so, this is an interesting
> digression, which I'm happy to discuss, but perhaps we should move it to a
> different thread.
>
> The original question was not concerned with gerunds, and I doubt having the
> atomic representation of f@g (vector or scalar) in the corner of the result
> table would be satisfying. What was wanted was the string representation
> (which is produced using 5!:5, which operates on scalars, so shape doesn't
> have meaning to it, and neither does atomic representation).
>
> Anyway, when present the promise of J to newcomers, we need to take care not
> obscure the pitfalls. The literal Jenie (dJinni?) who delivers exactly what
> was asked for is rarely the hero of folklore.
>
> -Dan
>
> PS: If we wish to continue the digression, it might be better to start with
> the links below, better starting point would be wh
>
> Here's a couple places where I've attempted to capture the meaning of
> "gerund"
>
> Sidebar in NuVoc definition of ` :
> http://jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/backtick#sidebar.3Agerunds
>
> As a necessary premise in the definition of a modifier utility:
> www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/DanBron/Snippets/DOOG#definition
>
> Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com>
> Sender: programming-boun...@jsoftware.com
> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:52:13
> To: Programming forum<programming@jsoftware.com>
> Reply-To: Programming forum <programming@jsoftware.com>
> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Verb display in function tables
>
> Ok...
>
> ...except that gerunds are defined as vectors.
>
> Conceptually speaking, if it's a scalar, or a matrix, it's something
> different. It would still be gerund-like, in character (we can
> trivially extract gerunds from it), but if we try using such things
> with primitives that handle gerunds, we are getting into undocumented
> territory.
>
> --
> Raul
>
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Dan Bron <j...@bron.us> wrote:
>> That makes sense.
>>
>> My personal impression was that the original vector-ness was an
>> (unintentional) side-effect of the method used to remove the trailing atom
>> (select-all-but-last as opposed to select-first).
>>
>> The proposed scalar should be a transparent replacement for the original
>> vector, whose shape wasn't serving a specific purpose (normally, in J, shape
>> carries meaning, and where it doesn't it is misleading: at best superfluous,
>> but often pernicious).
>>
>> -Dan
>>
>>
>> Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com>
>> Sender: programming-boun...@jsoftware.com
>> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 10:41:56
>> To: Programming forum<programming@jsoftware.com>
>> Reply-To: Programming forum <programming@jsoftware.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Verb display in function tables
>>
>> I often do that myself, but in this case, the original phrase was also
>> generating a 1 element vector, so I decided that a 1-element vector
>> was an appropriate result.
>>
>> --
>> Raul
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Dan Bron <j...@bron.us> wrote:
>>> Because in many contexts, a scalar is more convenient than a 1-element
>>> vector, I make a habit of tacking on a {. as in {.u`'' .
>>>
>>> -Dan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would use u`''
>>>>
>>>> avg 1 :'u`'''''
>>>> +---+
>>>> |avg|
>>>> +---+
>>>> avg
>>>> |value error: avg
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin
>>>> <moku...@sugarlabs.org> wrote:
>>>>> I had thought that I would not be able to get a program to show the
>>>>> definition of a function given its name, but I found a kludge for the
>>>>> purpose using tie. Now I would like to know whether somebody has a
>>>>> direct solution. My application for this capability is a defined
>>>>> adverb for producing function tables.
>>>>>
>>>>> t=.1 :(':';'2 2$(>1 0#u`u);y;(,.x);x u/ y')
>>>>> l +t l=.i.5
>>>>> ┌─┬─────────┐
>>>>> │+│0 1 2 3 4│
>>>>> ├─┼─────────┤
>>>>> │0│0 1 2 3 4│
>>>>> │1│1 2 3 4 5│
>>>>> │2│2 3 4 5 6│
>>>>> │3│3 4 5 6 7│
>>>>> │4│4 5 6 7 8│
>>>>> └─┴─────────┘
>>>>>
>>>>> The question then is whether somebody knows a less ugly way to display
>>>>> the value of u in executing this adverb than >1 0#u`u or >0{u`u .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
>>>>> Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
>>>>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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