http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=1&id=27916
Peace talks aborted to give International Quartet plan “a chance” – Israeli
President
31/12/2011
By Nazir Majali
Tel Aviv, Asharq Al-Awsat – Israeli President Shimon Peres is the elder
statesmen of Israeli politics. He has served as Israeli Prime Minister three
times in his career, and has been a member of 12 cabinets in a political career
spanning more than half a century. He was first elected to the Knesset in
November 1959, and barring a three-month-long hiatus in early 2006, served
continuously until 2007, when he was appointed President. Peres is widely
respected within Israel, as well as the Arab world, and was a recipient of the
1994 Nobel Peace Prize, along with Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat, for the
peace talks he participated in – as Israeli Foreign Minister – which produced
the Oslo Accords.
In an exclusive interview with Asharq Al-Awsat, Israeli President Shimon Peres
talks about the future of Palestinian – Israeli peace negotiations, the Arab
Spring, and the threat of Iran.
The following is the full text of the interview:
[Asharq Al-Awsat] I met with you a few months ago just prior to your trip to
Jordan to meet with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, to complete talks
aimed at resuming the peace negotiations. At the time, you said that you were
extremely optimistic about the chances of resuming peace negotiations, but
nothing was achieved on the ground. What happened?
[Peres] The situation in Egypt became more complicated, whilst there was [also]
rapprochement between Hamas and Fatah.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] However, isn’t it true that you were the one who contacted
Abbas at the last moment, informing him that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu was not granting you permission to pursue the talks?
[Peres] Yes, things were impeded on that day, but I did not give up.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] On that day, did you reach any agreement with Abbas? Did this
meeting achieve any serious progress?
[Peres] We made a lot of progress.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What progress? Whose ideas were implemented or agreed upon;
your own ideas, those of Abbas, those of Netanyahu?
[Peres] Everything was in coordination with Prime Minister [Netanyahu].
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Could this “progress” have resulted in a serious agreement?
[Peres] It could have been very serious, if we were not forced to stop.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What forced you to stop?
[Peres] The International Quartet submitted its new proposals, and Tony Blair
and US officials arrived and offered to conduct direct meetings focusing on the
issues of borders and security. They asked each party to put forward its
proposals [on these issues] within three months…this is what halted our
progress.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] So you are saying that it was the International Quartet – not
Prime Minister Netanyahu – that halted your most recent efforts to reach an
agreement with Abbas?
[Peres] Netanyahu told me that he wanted to give the International Quartet’s
proposal a chance.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] However since that there have been no direct Israeli –
Palestinian contacts. In this case, how would you characterize the
International Quartet’s intervention?
[Peres] This [Israeli – Palestinian communication] has not been cut off
completely, but it is less than before. This period will end on 14 January.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do you mean to say that the International Quartet’s proposal
is doomed to failure, and the negotiations will return to their previous track?
[Peres] Yes, this is what I believe.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] The International Quartet has asked each party to put forward
its proposal regarding the issue of borders and security. As far as I know, the
Palestinians have done this, putting forward their own initiative regarding the
border issue, and supporting the initiative that was previously put forward by
the US regarding security. However the Israelis have so-far failed to put
forward any initiative, is this true?
[Peres] Since the Americans put forward their initiative regarding the security
issue, new developments have occurred in the region. There is a lack of
security in the Egyptian Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip, whilst the
situation in Syria and Lebanon is unclear. Even in Egypt, the situation is
obscure, but we must not fall victim to despair.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] However didn’t the Ehud Olmert government agree to the US
proposal on the security issue?
[Peres] The present Israeli government does not see itself as being bound to
accept what was agreed by Olmert.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Why?
[Peres] This is because this was a proposal, not an agreement. Abbas did not
sign any agreement with Olmert, so this is not binding to the next government.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Is there any hope in the current hardline Netanyahu
government reaching an agreement with the Palestinians?
[Peres] I believe in direct negotiations. The International Quartet is not an
alternative to that. Every party in the International Quartet has its own
interests and causes. Take Russia, for example…it is standing with Syrian
President Bashar al-Assad who is slaughtering his own people, whilst the
situation in Syria is a source of concern for both Jordan and Lebanon.
President al-Assad, who began his political life as an eye-doctor, is now
demonstrating that he is a butcher, whilst our Lebanese “friend” Hassan
Nasrallah is serving Iran’s interests [in the region]. However despite this
[conflicting interests], Russia is part of the International Quartet, and this
is a new situation that is different from the past.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Is Israel concerned about the situation in Syria?
[Peres] Everybody is concerned. This concern is increasing over the lack of
clarity regarding what is known as the “Arab Spring”, although I have a
different view of this issue.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What is your view?
[Peres] I believe that the “Arab Spring” indicates that there is a new
generation of youth in the Arab world who understands that if the Arab world
does not join the modern economy it will not be able to extricate itself from
poverty. The imams in the mosques cannot find solutions to financial crises. Of
course, there is no contradiction between religion and Facebook and technology,
but the Arab youth want water, economy, technology, freedom, and democracy.
This is the issue; the river Nile is not able to solve Egypt’s [financial]
problems today. Egypt’s population 50 years ago was 18 million, whilst today it
is 81 million. As for Ethiopia, its population 50 years ago stood at 17
million, and today it stands at 80 million, whilst Sudan [today] has a
population of around 50 million. These countries are utilizing the old water
distribution agreement, and they cannot depend solely on the Nile. In Jordan,
there is no water. Whilst we in Israel do not suffer from problems such as
this; the Dead Sea is dying, and the Sea of Galilee is shrinking, but we do not
suffer from water shortages, due to technological development. This is also the
same reason why our agriculture is sufficient, and why one acre of land can
produce the crop yield of 10 acres. This is something that could happen in
Egypt and everywhere, on the condition that they pay attention to science and
technology, not political and partisan conflict. Such conflicts only lead to
starvation. The Arab youth are aware of this, and have revolted against it, and
therefore the Muslim Brotherhood’s attempts to hijack the revolution will not
succeed.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] You say the Muslim Brotherhood will not succeed, but they won
the highest number of votes in the two previous rounds of Egyptian
parliamentary elections. Are you certain about this?
[Peres] Even if they win the elections…the people want their problems to be
solved. The youth in the Arab world are the majority, and they are well aware
that just as in the past it was impossible to live without land, it is
impossible today to live without science and technology, and without
employment. When 35 percent of the youth are unemployed, they will not find
anything to satisfy them, unless they are provided with employment. They are
revolting against the state of affairs where they are forced to live with their
families in one house, without any hope for a secure future. Switching MPs is
not what is required, what is required is a radical change in the management of
the state’s affairs.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] So you are not worried about the outcome of the Arab Spring,
as other senior Israeli officials and leaders have expressed?
[Peres] I have confidence in the youth generation, as well as [the youth
generation] in the Arab World. I have confidence in the new developments that
we have seen. I have confidence in globalization and in the economy.
Globalization has destroyed racism, and struck a critical blow to national
intolerance. Today, you need to produce and sell your products, so you cannot
differentiate between white and black; because you want everybody to buy from
you. Whoever acts in a racist way, will become bankrupt. Anyone who wants a
narrow national economy will become bankrupt. This is a new world, and the Arab
youth are a part of it. The Arab Spring brought about two essential things,
namely striking down the dictators, and proving that dictatorships are no
longer appropriate for our time.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] However what about those who warn that many of this
generation of Arab youth harbor deep animosity towards the state of Israel?
[Peres] I do not think there is a sincere basis for this hatred. They should
hate terrorism and extremisms. In Israel, there is a genuine desire for peace,
and there is an internal conflict raging about this peace; terrorism is what
prevents peace. We have withdrawn from the Gaza Strip, but it does not want to
leave us…it pursues us with rocket attacks. We left Lebanon, and it also
pursues us with rocket attacks. So what more does Hamas want from us?
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What about the West Bank? There is a national authority there
led by Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad, there is the rule of law and no rocket
attacks, whilst the leadership rejects violence and continually asserts its
desire for peace. Yet despite all this, has the Israeli policy changed towards
the West Bank?
[Peres] We are working together to reach peace, and I am certain that we will
succeed. Let me also say that we are not creating peace in order to be
charitable to the Palestinians, but rather because it is an urgent need for the
Israelis. We have lost a lot, both the Palestinians and the Israelis, due to
terrorism. I lost power (in 1996) due to terrorist operations. At the time, I
travelled with Yasser Arafat to a number of European states to back economic
support for the Palestinian Authority. Every time that we make developments we
face new obstacles due to terrorism, and those who are behind this. The Iraqi
people lost because of Saddam Hussein. Look at Libya, and how much the people
of Libya lost over the 40years of Gaddafi rule. Look at the damage that
Hezbollah is causing in Lebanon and Hamas to the Palestinians.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What is your response to those who say that Israel today is
profoundly different to the country it was during your era, or the Rabin era?
There is the joke that even if the entire Arab world converted to Judaism, this
would still not be enough to convince Netanyahu to make peace.
[Peres] There is no need for them to convert to Judaism, just to stop firing
rockets [at Israel]. Hamas in Gaza don’t want peace.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Hamas in Gaza, in many cases, is acting as Israel’s police
force, preventing other Palestinian factions from firing rockets at Israel.
Doesn’t this unofficial truce indicate there is potential for peace?
[Peres] At the end of the day, Hamas prefers Iranian funding more than anything
else. It is Iran today that is present in Gaza.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] If this is your view of the situation, then how could you say
– as you did previously – that you are optimistic about a peace agreement?
[Peres] I am optimistic because I will not stop working for the resumption of
negotiations, and we can then lead these negotiations down a successful path.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Will this start on 14 January, when the International Quartet
deadline runs out?
[Peres] We have never stopped communicating [with the Palestinians], however
the extent of this communication has decreased. It will resume at a higher pace
next month.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What kind of talks will take place? Will this be direct or
indirect negotiations?
[Peres] These will be calm talks; talks where despair is forbidden. There are
actions and positions that lead to despair, however I do not despair. Every
party has made mistakes. We saw Abbas meeting Amina Muna, who was convicted of
killing an [Israeli] youth. Do I agree with this? No, but I do respect this man
[Abbas], although I don’t know why he agreed to a meeting such as this.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] You have worked closely with Netanyahu for many years. Do you
truly believe there is any hope that he is serious about the peace process?
[Peres] Yes, I do. There is a difference between him and myself; he has less
faith that the peace negotiations will be successful, but he does want this.
All the communication that I have conducted with the Palestinians took place in
coordination between us. He is the Prime Minister of Israel. He is the
decision-maker. He has different partisan and coalition issues to take into
account, but he knows that there is no alternative to peace, for peace brings
prosperity.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do you think there are solutions to all the problems and
obstacles that have been encountered during the peace process? The issue of
settlements, Jerusalem, refugees, and others; do you truly believe it is
possible for both sides to reach an agreement on these issues?
[Peres] Yes, there are possible solutions to all these issues, and they have
been discussed and we have made a lot of progress. We will continue to talk [to
resolve these issues].
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What progress?
[Peres] I don’t want to go into the details here, so as not to harm this.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Allow me to ask you a different question. When you were
negotiating with Yasser Arafat, did you reach any solutions or agreements that
were not revealed publicly? Are any such agreements being raised with Abbas
today?
[Peres] With Arafat, we reached many things. Arafat was necessary as this is
where the process begun, but it was not possible to reach the end of the road
with him.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Why is that?
[Peres] He would go back on things we had agreed on. He believed in the use of
violence to exert pressure. He would make promises and then go back on his
word. When I asked him about this, he answered that he did not want to cause a
Palestinian civil war. One time, I remember I told him that the first Prime
Minister of Israel, David Ben Gurion, did not hesitate to impose the authority
of the state on the opposition, although many people warned him that this could
incite a civil war. However this did not work. Despite this, let me stress that
without Arafat, we would not have reached a situation such as this, where the
issue of the establishment of a Palestinian state is a foregone conclusion in
everybody’s view.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What about Abbas?
[Peres] Abbas is a civilized leader who truly loves peace and who we can reach
peace with. I respect him a lot. I always sense his dedication to the cause of
peace. He sometimes surprises me….for example, the issue of resorting to the
United Nations, or his meeting with the freed prisoner Amina Muna in Turkey.
However he is diligent in his talk about rejecting violence, and his desire for
peace, with security guarantees for both sides. I respect him.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Let us return to the situation in Syria. Do you also have
confidence in the Syrian youth who are rising up against al-Assad, regardless
of their possible political or religious background and beliefs?
[Peres] The Syrian opposition is united in one thing…getting rid of
dictatorship. That is the most important thing, namely a democratic Syria. This
is an important and positive step, not just for the Syrian people, but for the
Arab people, and also Israel. Only Iran and its agents will lose from this [the
establishment of a democratic Syria].
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What about those in Israel who are threatening military
action against Iran?
[Peres] Iran is a threat…not just to Israel, but to the entire Arab world, and
indeed the rest of the world.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What about the hints in the West which seem to show a level
of acceptance towards the emergence of Iran as a nuclear power?
[Peres] Time is running out regarding the Iranian nuclear file. However US
President [Barack Obama] said that he would not allow Iran to possess nuclear
weapon, whilst French President [Nicolas Sarkozy] and German Chancellor [Angela
Merkel] said the same. This is an international problem, not just an Israeli
one. I am not one of those that support viewing this issue as solely an Israeli
one.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] The popular belief is that you routinely disagree with
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and your politics are certainly
different, however you do not announce this disagreement publicly, in the same
manner as [former President] Ezer Weizman. Why is that?
[Peres] My style of [political] work is different, for I want my views to be
effective.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Then, would you say your views influence Israeli policy and
government?
[Peres] Do not expect me to praise myself here, what I will say is that I
always give my opinion, whatever it might be
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Post message: [email protected]
Subscribe : [email protected]
Unsubscribe : [email protected]
List owner : [email protected]
Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
[email protected]
[email protected]
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
