Kok jadi ngomongin kematian? Lha yang kurban aja blon kelar :p Salahsatu guru spiritual pernah bisikin: "mati itu ibarat keluar dari satu mobil lalu masuk ke mobil lain.."
Asyik kan, ternyata sesederhana itu. So, nggak ada alasan untuk takut mati. Pikir punya pikir, kok mirip naik metromini sialan yang seenaknya ngoper penumpang ke metromini lain?? Lalu, sepirit dari perguruan lain bilang cerita soal pindah mobil itu memang bagus untuk mengikis rasa takut mati. "Tapi (nah ada tapinya..) kita harus ingat, ada mati konyol dan ada mati tidak konyol. Dari metromini pindah ke truk pemadam, itu tidak konyol. Dari sedan ke ambulan, nah itu baru konyol," katanya beranalogi. Wah, konyol juga nih si kematian.... Cuma, lucunya, semakin dicari itu kematian, semakin simpangsiurlah "sosok"nya. Jadi, ya udah tarik aja sendiri simpulnya: mati adalah kegelapan yang paling terang. Beres! (mampus lu wahai kematian) Sekarang, balik ke pertanyaan di bawah itu, mana yang menjalankan perintah agama? Membiarkan pembunuhan atau terlibat gerakan sosialis-kiri? Yang merasa atheis boleh ikut jawab. --- "arra_s" <arra_s@...> wrote: > yang takut mati biasanya yang ngerasa banyak bikin dosa.. > artinya mereka2 ini percaya ada hari penghitungan.. dimana dosa dan > amal di timbang.. > > kalau atheis hrs nya ngga takut mati.. > dan yg percaya dosa nya otomatis sudah di tebus.. > juga mesti nya ngga takut mati.. > > tetapi kenapa banyak dari 2 yg terakhir ini takut mati juga?? > apakah karena ngga percaya sama yg di yakini nya?? > > > --- "ttbnice" <rparapat@> wrote: > > > Sebenernya ini persoalan mendasar semua agama samawi. Kalo emang > > bisa hidup di akhirat itu selamanya, seharusnya kematian di dunia > > itu bukan hal yg menakutkan. Malah kalo perlu, matinya buru2 aja. > > Mulai dari abg kalo bisa. Kenapa musti persoalkan idup yg cuma > > seemprit kuprit cikitrit di dunia kalo bisa idup selamanya di > > akhirat? > > > > Tapi nooooo semua umat agama samawi masih takut mati. Kontradiksi > > bukan? > > > > Membiarkan anak buah mati, justru sikap ideal orang beragama > > samawi... > > > > > > --- "ajeg" <ajegilelu@> wrote: > > > > > Boleh jadi peristiwa kelam ini membuktikan reputasinya > > > memisahkan layanan rohani dari urusan politik. > > > > > > Lalu, bagaimana posisi 2 bawahannya yang "dibiarkan" > > > terbunuh di tangan junta militer? Mana yang menjalankan > > > perintah agama dan mana yang melangkah atas hakikat > > > manusia? > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Accusers draw ties between Catholic church and 70s junta, > > > saying Jorge Bergoglio failed to shield two priests > > > > > > Pope Francis: role during Argentina's military era disputed > > > > > > Jonathan Watts in Buenos Aires > > > The Guardian, Friday 15 March 2013 > > > > > > > > > Pope Francis is known in his native Argentina as a man of > > > austere habits, long pregnant pauses in conversation and a > > > reticence about discussing himself. For supporters, this > > > is proof of his humility, which was further underlined for > > > them in his first address as pope to the masses in St Peter's > > > Square, where he eschewed the usual jewelled crucifix in > > > favour of a simple wooden cross. > > > > > > For critics, however and there are many in his home country > > > it may have more to do with allegations that he and the Roman > > > Catholic church were guilty of the sin of omission and > > > perhaps worse during the brutal military dictatorship from > > > 1976 to 1983. > > > > > > Those dark years cast the longest shadow over the elevation of > > > Jorge Bergoglio, the former archbishop of Buenos Aires, as the > > > new Vicar of Christ, and continues to divide a nation. > > > > > > While Argentina rang with celebratory church bells at the news > > > of the first Latin American pope, some were seized by doubt and > > > confusion. "I can't believe it, I don't know what to do, I'm in > > > so much anguish and so enraged," wrote Graciela Yorio in an > > > email published in the Argentine press on Thursday morning. > > > > > > In 1976, her brother, Orlando Yorio, along with another Jesuit > > > priest, Francisco Jalics, were seized by navy troops in the > > > slums of Buenos Aires and held and tortured for five months at > > > the ESMA camp, a navy base in the capital where 5,000 people > > > were murdered by the military junta. > > > > > > The two priests served under Bergoglio, who is accused in some > > > quarters of abandoning them to the military after they became > > > involved in leftist social movements. > > > > > > His chief accuser is journalist Horacio Verbitsky, whose book > > > El Silencio paints a disquieting picture of Bergoglio's > > > relationship with the priests who sought his protection when > > > they felt their lives were in danger from the military because > > > of their social work in the slums. > > > > > > Verbitsky believes the then chief of the Jesuits in Argentina > > > played a double game, aiding Yorio and Jalics while expressing > > > concern about their activities to military officers. > > > > > > But Verbitsky's views are seen as overly simplistic by other > > > observers of that era. "Verbitsky is not wrong, but he doesn't > > > understand the complexity of Bergoglio's position back then > > > when things were so dangerous," said Robert Cox, a British > > > journalist and former editor of the Buenos Aires Herald, the > > > only newspaper in Argentina that reported the murders as they > > > happened. "He can't see how difficult it was to operate under > > > those circumstances." > > > > > > But Cox, who moved to North Carolina after death threats > > > against his family in 1979, suggests Bergoglio could have done > > > more. "I don't think he gave them in," he said. "But Bergoglio > > > didn't protect them, he didn't speak out." > > > > > > Adolfo Perez Esquivel, who won the 1980 Nobel peace prize for > > > documenting the junta's atrocities, takes a similar view. > > > "Perhaps he didn't have the courage of other priests, but he > > > never collaborated with the dictatorship," he told the > > > Associated Press. "Bergoglio was no accomplice of the > > > dictatorship. He can't be accused of that." The vast majority > > > of Argentinians view the dictatorship era as appalling. > > > > > > Others suggest that Bergoglio was actually a hero. Francesca > > > Ambrogetti, co-author of The Jesuit a flattering biography of > > > the new pope says Bergoglio told her he met the dictator Jose > > > Rafael Videla and Eduardo Massera, the head of the navy which > > > was in charge of some concentration camps, to try and intercede > > > on behalf of the priests. > > > > > > She said he took great risks to save others. "I believe he did > > > all he could at that time," she said. "It's a complex issue > > > that is very difficult to explain after so many years." > > > > > > In a 2005 interview Bergoglio himself said he moved fast to > > > save their lives. "That same night when I heard of the > > > kidnappings I started to move. In one of my attempts to meet > > > Videla I found out who the military chaplain was who gave mass > > > to Videla and convinced that priest to call in sick and I > > > managed to be named to replace him." > > > > > > Bergoglio said that after the mass he managed to speak to > > > Videla about the case, which would not have been an easy task > > > at the time, given the climate of fear that reigned over these > > > issues in Argentina then. > > > > > > That era continues to polarise Argentina, where the current > > > left-leaning government has reopened several prominent cases in > > > the past decade. Details are murky. Few from that era can > > > escape with entirely clear consciences. Many turned a blind eye > > > and kept silent. Accusations of this sin of omission have been > > > levelled at Bergoglio. > > > > > > Myriam Bregman, an Argentine lawyer in the continuing trials of > > > crimes at the ESMA death camp, says Bergoglio's appointment to > > > the papacy left her confused. "It gave me a feeling of > > > amazement and impotence," said Bregman, who took Bergoglio's > > > declaration regarding Jalics and Yorio in 2010. > > > > > > "Bergoglio refused to come [and] testify in court," she > > > recalled, making use of Argentine legislation that permits > > > ministers of the church to choose where to declare. > > > > > > "He finally accepted to see us in an office alongside Buenos > > > Aires cathedral sitting underneath a tapestry of the Virgin > > > Mary. It was an intimidating experience, we were very > > > uncomfortable intruding in a religious building." > > > > > > Bregman says that Bergoglio did not provide any significant > > > information on the two priests. "He seemed reticent, I left > > > with a bitter taste," she said. > > > > > > Estela de la Cuadra's mother co-founded the Grandmothers of the > > > Plaza de Mayo activist group during the dictatorship to search > > > for missing family members. She was at first astonished, then > > > appalled when a friend texted the news that Bergoglio had been > > > chosen as the new pope. > > > > > > "It is unthinkable, horrifying given what I know about his > > > history," she said, recalling the disappearance of her sister. > > > > > > The last time they saw each other was in January 1977 when they > > > were members of leftwing groups formed among the students at La > > > Plata University, then one of the most radical in Argentina. > > > > > > Her sister, Elena, was three months pregnant and in hiding in > > > Buenos Aires from military snatch squads that had already > > > seized her husband. She "disappeared" a month later and was > > > later seen by survivors in a concentration camp run by the navy. > > > > > > Desperate, the family used a connection with the global head of > > > the Jesuit order the "black pope", Pedro Arrupe to lobby > > > for her release. He put them on to Bergoglio, who provided a > > > letter of introduction to a bishop with connections to the > > > military dictator. > > > > > > The only answer that came back, said Estela, was that her > > > sister's baby was now "in the hands of a good family. It was > > > irreversible." Neither mother nor child were heard from again. > > > > > > For Estela, Bergoglio did the bare minimum he had to do to keep > > > in line with the black pope. She says the story underlines the > > > close connections between the Catholic church and the military > > > junta, as well as what she sees as lies and hypocrisy of a new > > > pope who once claimed to have no knowledge of the adoptions of > > > babies being born in concentration camps and then adopted by > > > families close to the regime. > > > > > > "I've testified in court that Bergoglio knew everything, that > > > he wasn't despite what he says uninvolved," said Estela, > > > who believes the church worked with the military to gather > > > intelligence on the families of the missing. > > > > > > She is also furious that Bergoglio refused to defrock another > > > priest, Christian von Wernich, who was jailed for life in 2007 > > > for seven killings, 42 abductions and 34 cases of torture, in > > > which he told victims: "God wants to know where your friends > > > are." > > > > > > She is now requesting classified documents from the episcopal > > > and Vatican archives, which would shed more light on the issues. > > > > > > That is unlikely to be approved in Rome, though it would > > > until Wednesday at least have probably gone down well in the > > > government of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. > > > > > > The Argentine president is a staunch advocate of taking to > > > court not only military officers responsible for the killing of > > > thousands of young activists, but also civilians who may have > > > played a role back then. > > > > > > Fernández has an icy relationship with Bergoglio who is seen > > > as a conservative and has studiously avoided him over the > > > last years, moving out of the city every 25 May when Bergoglio > > > gave his annual mass at Buenos Aires Cathedral. > > > > > > As he has shown by rising through the ranks of the church > > > Bergoglio is an extremely astute politician, who uses the > > > sparseness of words and space to press home his considerable > > > influence on government and legislature. > > > > > > "He is a participant in Argentine politics, but in his own > > > way very low profile. More politicians pass through his > > > office than either the opposition or the government would care > > > to admit," said Washington Uranga, social science professor at > > > the University of Buenos Aires. > > > > > > "People go in search of coverage, to ask him to use his > > > influence. In other cases, he calls on them to come, but it is > > > always in his territory. It's always in his office." > > > > > > When Bergoglio does occasionally speak out in public, it tends > > > to be with allusions rather than direct references to > > > Argentina's darkest era. When trials reopened in 2006, he > > > suggested it was not a good idea to churn up the problems of > > > the past, although this was seen as a comment on the rise in > > > the number of trials. > > > > > > "We are happy to reject anger and endless conflict, because we > > > don't believe in chaos and disorder Wretched are those who > > > are vindictive and spiteful," he said in a public sermon. > > > > > > Additional reporting by Sebastián Lacunza > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! 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