Dan tetap saja yang bertanggung jawab atas pendapat Mingana adalah Mingana dan bukan Luxenberg atau saya.
--- In [email protected], "hadingrh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > dan kamu tidak perlu merecek setiap omongan/tulisan yg kamu baca ? > jangan salahkan orang kl nganggap kamu goblok .. > atau pandir .. > atau pembual ... > > > --- In [email protected], "hadjar_wish" <hadjar@> wrote: > > > > Dan yang bertanggung jawab atas tulisan Mingana memang Mingana... > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote: > > > > > > dan sebagai balasannya, jusfiq malah bilang gini: > > > "Ngaco. > > > > > > Yang bertanggung jawab atas pendapat Mingana adalah Mingana." > > > > > > seolah jusfiq mau berlepas tangan akan kesalahan2 mereka ... > > > padahal .. > > > jusfiq berdagang tiap hari di milis2 seolah teori mereka sudah > > > confirmed .... > > > tolol ... > > > > > > hipokrit ... > > > > > > pengecut .... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "hadingrh" <hadingrh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/message/195519 > > > > untuk sekedar mengingatkan bahwa jusfiq belum sekalipun membantah > > > > tulisan di bawah ... > > > > > > > > yah ... memang pandir .. payah > > > > > > > > luxenberg merupakan pengekor dari mingana ... > > > > jadi begini, mingana bilang > > > > If all the signs do not mislead us, very few oracular sentences, if > > > > any, were written in the time of the Prophet. The kind of life > he led, > > > > and the rudimentary character of reading and writing in that part of > > > > the world in which he appeared, are sufficient witnesses in > favour of > > > > this view. Our ignorance of the Arabic language in its early > period of > > > > its evolution is such that we can not even know with certainty > whether > > > > it had any writing of its own in Maccah and Madinah. If a kind of > > > > writing existed in these two localities it must have been something > > > > very similar to Estrangelo [i.e., Syriac] or the Hebrew character. > > > > > > > > sebagai seorang yg mengaku ilmuwan dia tidak jujur krn mengabaikan > > > > nilai2 kultur sosial-budaya arab.. > > > > > > > > The opinions of Arab authors, on this point, are too worthless to be > > > > quoted... If we may advance an opinion of our own, we think that a > > > > complete and systematic treatise on these vowels was not elaborated > > > > till the latter half of the VIIIth century, and we believe that such > > > > an attempt could have been successfully made only the under the > > > > influence of the school of Baghdâd, at its very beginning. > > > > > > > > dia bilang juga : > > > > The foundation of the Arabic vowels is based on the vowels of > > > > Aramaeans. The names given to these vowels is an irrefragable > proof of > > > > the veracity of this assertion. > > > > > > > > When the Koran was composed, Arabic did not exist as a written > > > > language; thus it seemed evident to me that it was necessary to take > > > > into consideration, above all, Aramaic, which at the time, > between the > > > > 4th and 7th centuries, was not only the language of written > > > > communication, but also the lingua franca of that area of Western > > Asia. > > > > > > > > ... padahal > > > > sudah ditemukan skrip arabik yang menunjukkan bahwa alfabet sudah > > > > terbangun dgn baik sebelum sejarah nabi muhammad dimulai .. > > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/raqush.html > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/jramm.html > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/jimal.html > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/zebed.html > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/usays.html > > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/hamid1.html > > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/hamid2.html > > > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/hamid3.html > > > > sebagian prasasti2 ditemukan di bukit sal' dekat madinah tsb, bukti2 > > > > tsb diidentifikasi berasal dari tahun 4 AH > > > > > > > > prasasti2 ini membuktikan bajwa artikulatik alfabet arab sudah > > > > terbangun dgn baik cukup utk bs menolak premis spekulatif > mingana dan > > > > luxenberg. lebih jauh bellamy memberi komentar thd prasasti dr jabal > > > > ramm, umm al-jimal dan harran : > > > > Anyone who takes a close look at these inscriptions and compares > them > > > > with the sample of Koran... will discern a great many > letterforms that > > > > have not been changed at all, or very little, in the sixteen hundred > > > > years that have elapsed since the earliest one was written. > > > > nabia abbott pun terang2an menolak opini sembrono dr mingana dgn > > > > menggunakan temuan papyrus arabik yg ditemukan di mesir .. > > > > If written Arabic was so primitive and rare in its own homeland > at the > > > > time of Muhammad's death, how do we account for its practical use in > > > > Egypt only a short dozen years after that event? > > > > > > > > selain abbot jg ada kees versteegh and beatrice gruendler. > > > > gruendler bilang .. > > > > The diacritic system had completed its development in the first half > > > > of the first Islamic century, ... > > > > > > > > dan healey bilang ... > > > > ... we may suspect that the concept of diacritics came to the Arabs > > > > with the Nabataean script, ... > > > > > > > > yang lucu luxenberg menggunakan pendapat Grohmann di dalam arabische > > > > paläographie sbg sumber untuk mendukung argumen skrip > syro-aramäische > > > > > > > > padahal dalam bukunya grohmann sebaliknya menolak argumen bhw asal > > > > mula skrip arab berasal dari skrip syria.. > > > > > > > > di sisi lain .. > > > > luxenberg menggunakan teknik trial-error thd sab`at ahruf dan > > > > menghubungkannya dgn 7 tanda vokal dari syriac.. tabari [d. 310 ah / > > > > 923 ce] mengungkapkan bhw "a tradition which says that there > were five > > > > readings (i.e., khamsah ahruf) of the qur'an", yg mana luxenberg > > > > secara sembrono mengaitkannya dgn 5 vokal dari siria barat.. > > > > > > > > untuk vokal arabik diketahui bhw abu al-aswad al-du'ali [d. 69 ah / > > > > 688 ce] merupakan yg pertama menemukannya: > > > > Abu `Ubaydah narrated: > > > > > > > > Abu al-Aswad derived grammar from `Ali ibn Abi Talib, for whom there > > > > be peace, but he did not disclose to anyone what he had learned from > > > > `Ali, whose countenance may Allah honor, until Ziyad [the > governor of > > > > Basrah from 45 to 53 AH] appointed him for the composition of > > > > something to serve as a guide to the people, so that they could > > > > understand the book of Allah. Abu al-Aswad asked to be excused from > > > > this task, until one time when he heard a reader recite, Allah > is quit > > > > of the idolators and of His Apostle [Qur'an 9:3, reading rasulihi, > > > > which should have been read as God is quit of the idolators and > so is > > > > His Apostle (reading rasuluhu)]. Then he said, "I never supposed > that > > > > the condition of the people would come to this!" So he returned to > > > > Ziyad and said, "I will do what the emir has ordered. Let there be > > > > sought for me a scribe who is intelligent and obedient to what I > say." > > > > They brought, therefore, a scribe from the `Abd al-Kays Tribe, > but he > > > > [Abu al-Aswad] was not satisfied with him. Then they came with > another > > > > one, about whom Abu al-`Abbas al-Mubarrad said, "I regard him to be > > > > one of those [who are intelligent]." So Abu al-Aswad said [to > the new > > > > scribe], "If you see that I open my mouth in pronouncing a letter, > > > > place a mark above, on top of it. If I close my mouth [making a u > > > > sound], place a mark in front of the letter, and if I split [my > lips] > > > > double the mark." So this was the marking system of Abu al-Aswad. > > > > skema al-aswad al-du'ali jg ditemukan di qur'anic manuscripts di thn > > > > 1st/2nd century of hijra > > > > (http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/index.html#1/2) > > > > > > > > sebenarnya ini baru sepertiga dari isi tulisan dari > > > > http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/vowel.html, masih > terdapat > > > > banyak sisa pembuktian2 yg menelanjangi kecurangan mingana dan > > > > luxenberg yg bisa dilihat di link tsb > > > > siapapun yg merujuk pendapat mingana dan luxenberg pasti merupakan > > > > seorang yg tidak jujur krn mengabaikan pendapat2 lainnya yg lebih > > > kredibel > > > > > > > > kesimpulan akhirnya kita bisa baca dari apa yg dikatakan Robert > > > > Hoyland belum lama ini > > > > > > > > > > (http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlyislam.html): > > > > Firstly, we do have a number of bodies of evidence - especially > > > > non-Muslim sources, papyri, inscriptions and archaeological > > > > excavations - that can serve as a useful external referent and whose > > > > riches are only just beginning to be exploited in a systematic > manner. > > > > Secondly, the historical memory of the Muslim community is more > robust > > > > than some have claimed. For example, many of the deities, kings and > > > > tribes of the pre-Islamic Arabs that are depicted by ninth-century > > > > Muslim historians also feature in the epigraphic record, as do > many of > > > > the rulers and governors of the early Islamic state. This makes it > > > > difficult to see how historical scenarios that require for their > > > > acceptance a total discontinuity in the historical memory of the > > > > Muslim community - such as that Muhammad did not exist, the > Qur'an was > > > > not written in Arabic, Mecca was originally in a different place > etc. > > > > - can really be justified. Many of these scenarios rely on > absence of > > > > evidence, but it seems a shame to make such a recourse when > there are > > > > so many very vocal forms of material evidence still waiting to be > > > studied. > > > > > > > > > > > > jadi spt yg semua muslim tegaskan, bahwa quran itu solid .. tidak > > > > diragukan lagi bahwa itu kalam Ilahi.. > > > > dan seharusnya semua manusia tersungkur sujud > > > > > > > > > > Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! 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