Saya fwd. posting peserta lama "Alif Uru" ini dan akan saya fwd. posting n0stra_damus yang juga peserta lama belakangan untuk dibandingkan...
--- In [email protected], "Alif Uru" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Memang benar. Inti ajaran Kristen dan Kedatangan Yesus bukan terletak pada kapan dan dimana, atau bagaimana caranya, tetapi pada apa maknanya dan bagaimana penerapannya di dunia dan umat manusia. Dan kenyataan bahwa masih ada orang Kristen yang tdk tahu bahwa 25 desember itu bukanlah hari lahir Yesus itupun tdk bisa dipungkiri. Dan kedua hal diatas selalu diupayakan oleh Gereja untuk bisa difahami dng baik oleh umat. <alif> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], New Yorker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mungkin saja sebagian orang tidak tau bhw 25 desember itu BUKAN > hari lahirnya Yesus. > > Tapi ajaran Kristen memang bukan soal kapan Yesus lahir seh.. > yg sering dan terus dibahas dan direnungkan adalah apa makna > kelahirannya bagi manusia. Dan apakah kelahiranNya memberi nilai > tambah dalam kehidupan kita > > rim, rim... kesian deh loe :) > sibuk amat ngasih tau yg beginian? Yg rada berbobot dikit ngapah? > > ny > > > > --- "rimata07" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Masa ? > > > >Coba anda tanya kepada sembarang orang kristen di jalan .... > > > >Kapan Yesus lahir ? > > > >Jawabnya pasti 25 Desember, 2000 tahun yang lalu. > > > >cerita lebih lanjut ! > > > >Maka mereka akan cerita mitos natal yang ada di kitab Matius (yang > >kalau diteliti cermat SANGAT BEDA dengan cerita kelahiran di > >Lukas)... dan sebagai bagian dari mitos, mereka akan cerita tentang > >suasana dingin dan melarat di kandang .... sering gambarannnya sedang > >bersalju ...... karena mereka pikir bulan Desember pasti bersalju .... > > > >Be real, man ! > >saya yakin anda tahu lebih, tapi awam .... TIDAK ! > > > >rimata > > > > > > > > > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], New Yorker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Saya ternyata salah menilai si rimata ini. > >> Hal yg sudah lama sekali diketahui oleh orang Kristen--bhw tanggal > >25 desember adalah bukan hari kelahiran Yesus--baru diomongin > >sekarang di penghujung 2001. Fucking pathetic! > >> > >> "Buat yang masih menyangka bhw masih banyak orang belon tau kalau > >25 desember adalah bukan hari lahirnya Yesus, silakan kecele !" > >> > >> > >> > >> --- Hendro Prakoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > >> >Buat yang masih menyangka 25 desember adalah hari > >> >lahirnya Yesus, silakan kecele ! > >> >Tapi banyak orang memang terlalu bodo untuk terus > >> >ditipu. > >> > > >> >Saya tidak langsung menyangkal ajaran kristen, tapi > >> >marilah kita menyadari asal-usul peringatan natal yang > >> >jelas-jelas kepercayaan kafir, yang telah dikristenkan > >> >! > >> > > >> >Baca, ya ! > >> > > >> >rimata > >> > > >> >--- John D Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------- > >- > >> >> The Twenty-Fifth of December the Birthday of the > >> >> Gods > >> >> > >> >> DIVESTED of all explanation, the announcement of the > >> >> fact that the time of > >> >> the birth of many of the incarnated Gods and Saviors > >> >> of antiquity was fixed > >> >> at the same period, and this period the twenty-fifth > >> >> of December, celebrated > >> >> all over Christendom as the birthday of Jesus > >> >> Christ, would sound > >> >> marvelously strange, especially when it is noticed > >> >> that this period formerly > >> >> dated the birth of a new year -- the birth of King > >> >> Sol. And when we find > >> >> that the ancient pagans were in the habit of > >> >> celebrating this venerated > >> >> twenty-fifth of December as the birthday of their > >> >> Gods in the same manner > >> >> Christians now celebrate it as the birthday of > >> >> Christ, we are driven to > >> >> admit that something more than mere fortuitous > >> >> accident must be adduced to > >> >> account for the coincidence. > >> >> > >> >> Robert Taylor informs us that nearly all the nations > >> >> of the East were once > >> >> in the habit of rising at midnight to celebrate the > >> >> birthday of their Gods, > >> >> on the twenty-fifth of December. And to this > >> >> statement Mr. Higgins adds > >> >> that, "At the first moment after midnight of the > >> >> twenty-fourth of December, > >> >> the ancient nations celebrated the accouchement of > >> >> the queen of heaven and > >> >> celestial virgin, and the birth of the God Sol, the > >> >> Infant Savior, and the > >> >> God of Day. > >> >> > >> >> Bacchus of Egypt, Bacchus of Greece, Adonis of > >> >> Greece, Chrishna of India, > >> >> Chang-ti of China, Chris of Chaldea, Mithra of > >> >> Persia, Sakia of India, Jao > >> >> Wapaul (a crucified Savior of ancient Britain), were > >> >> all born on the > >> >> twenty-fifth of December, according to their > >> >> respective histories. Chrishna > >> >> is represented to have been born at midnight on the > >> >> twenty-fifth of the > >> >> month Savarana, which answers to our December, and > >> >> millions of his disciples > >> >> celebrated his birthday by decorating their houses > >> >> with garlands and gilt > >> >> paper, and the bestowment of presents to friends. > >> >> The Rev. Mr. Barret tells > >> >> us, "It was once common for the women in Rome to > >> >> perambulate the streets on > >> >> the twenty-fifth of December, singing in a loud > >> >> voice, "Unto us a child is > >> >> born this day." > >> >> > >> >> The twenty-fifth of December, then, it will be > >> >> observed, was marked as the > >> >> birthday of the incarnated Gods, Saviors, and Sons > >> >> of God, of many of the > >> >> religious systems of antiquity, long prior to the > >> >> birth of Christ. > >> >> > >> >> And why his birth was fixed at that date is not hard > >> >> to account for. > >> >> According to the celebrated Christian writer Mr. > >> >> Goodrich, the Christian > >> >> world had no chronology and recorded no dates for > >> >> several centuries after > >> >> the commencement of the Christian era. (See History > >> >> of all Nations, p. 23.) > >> >> No event of their history was marked by dates for > >> >> nearly four hundred years. > >> >> Hence, the time of Christ's birth is altogether a > >> >> matter of conjecture, as > >> >> is also every other event noticed in the Christian > >> >> bible. This is proved by > >> >> the fact that the ablest Christian writers and > >> >> chronologists differ to the > >> >> extent of thirty-five hundred years in fixing the > >> >> time of every event in the > >> >> bible. A Mr. Kennedy presents us with three hundred > >> >> different chronological > >> >> systems, by different Christian writers, all founded > >> >> on the bible, and > >> >> proving that the date of its various events are > >> >> inextricably involved in a > >> >> labyrinth of doubt, darkness and uncertainty. > >> >> > >> >> Relative to the time of Christ's birth, the > >> >> "Encyclopedia Britannica" says: > >> >> "Christians count one hundred and thirty-three > >> >> contrary opinions of > >> >> different authors concerning the year the Messiah > >> >> appeared on earth -- many of them celebrated > >> >> writers." (Art. Chron.) Mark > >> >> the declaration -- one hundred and thirty-three > >> >> different opinions as to the > >> >> year Christ was born in; one hundred and > >> >> thirty-three different years fixed > >> >> on by different Christian chronologists as the time > >> >> of the birth of the most > >> >> extraordinary and most noted being, as Christians > >> >> would have us believe, > >> >> that ever appeared on earth. Think of an omnipotent > >> >> God descending from > >> >> heaven, performing astounding miracles, and > >> >> presenting other proofs of being > >> >> a God, and yet not one of the three hundred writers > >> >> of that era take any > >> >> notice of him, or make any note of his birth or any > >> >> event of his life. This > >> >> circumstance is of itself sufficient to banish and > >> >> dissipate all faith in > >> >> his divinity. > >> >> > >> >> It is evident, from the facts just presented, that > >> >> all systems of Christian > >> >> chronology are founded on mere conjecture, and hence > >> >> should be rejected as > >> >> worthless. What event of Christ's life, then, can be > >> >> accepted as certain, > >> >> when no record was made of it till the time was > >> >> forgotten, and none for at > >> >> least half a century after the dawn of the Christian > >> >> era, according to Dr. > >> >> Lardner, when nearly all who witnessed it must have > >> >> been dead? > >> >> > >> >> We think the most reasonable conclusion in the case > >> >> is, that Christ, instead > >> >> of performing those Munchausen prodigies attributed > >> >> to him -- such as > >> >> casting out devils, raising the dead, controlling > >> >> the elements of nature, > >> >> etc. -- led such an ordinary, obscure life -- > >> >> excelling only in healing the > >> >> sick and other noble deeds of charity and > >> >> philanthropy -- that he attracted > >> >> but little notice by the higher classes, or by > >> >> anybody but those of a > >> >> similar turn of mind, till he was deified by > >> >> Constantine, in the year 325 > >> >> A.D. Hence, the time of his birth was not recorded, > >> >> and was forgotten. > >> >> Consequently, the twenty-fifth of December was > >> >> selected as his birthday, > >> >> because it was the birthday of other Gods, and > >> >> because it was regarded by > >> >> the heathen, from time immemorial, as the birthday > >> >> of Sol, the glorious > >> >> luminary of heaven, it being the period he is born > >> >> again into a new year, > >> >> and "commences again his journey and his life;" and > >> >> because, also, this > >> >> epoch was, as Sharon Turner informs us, in his > >> >> "History of the > >> >> Anglo-Saxons," the commencement of a new year up to > >> >> the tenth century. > >> >> > >> >> These events signalized the twenty-fifth of > >> >> December, and made it a period > >> >> of sufficient importance to lead the early > >> >> Christians to suppose it must > >> >> have been the birthday of their Messiah. Mosheim, > >> >> however, confesses that > >> >> the day or the year in which it happened "has not > >> >> been fixed with certainty, > >> >> notwithstanding the profound researches of the > >> >> learned." So that it is still > >> >> an open question as to when Christ was born. What > >> >> day of the month, what > >> >> year, or what century it took place in, is still > >> >> unknown. This circumstance > >> >> is, as before suggested, sufficient of itself to > >> >> utterly prostrate all faith > >> >> in the divine claims for Jesus Christ. What would be > >> >> thought of a > >> >> witness who should testify in court to the truth of > >> >> an occurrence of which > >> >> he did not know the year, or even the century, in > >> >> which it took place, or > >> >> who could come no nearer than one hundred and > >> >> thirty-three years in fixing > >> >> or guessing at the time. Would the court accept such > >> >> testimony? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >------------------------------------------------------------------- > >- > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> >__________________________________________________ > >> >Do You Yahoo!? > >> >Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > >> >http://greetings.yahoo.com > >> > > >> > > >> >Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >> > >> _____________________________________________________________ > >> Dapatkan segera! email gratis [EMAIL PROTECTED] di > >> http://www.emailgue.com. > > > > > > > >Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Unsubscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >List owner : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! 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