I admit Protel is far too slow in implemeting long requested features such as 
righthand mouse panning in the schematic. It would be simple to implement - I did
such things in other contexts. I don't have an idea about Protels agenda and time 
allocations. 

Delphi or Protel are complex packages, that take at least 6 month continous use until
you're at a useful level. The only comparison I have is doing demos for fellow users.
And when fulltime VC++ users admit Delphi is faster, then be it so.

I recently had a little introduction (6 month, weekly) into CATIA, a 3D contruction 
package. I was far from fluent, just grasped to possibilities, therefore I cannot 
compare it to Autocad 3D of which I've seen a few demos. 

Once you have a whatever package and used it for 6++ month you're stuck with it, not
because of the few (perhaps dozend) grands you spent for the purchase of it but for 
the time you already spent. Should it happen that you then repeatedly hear from 
colleagues who
use similar tools that theirs is better on the whole run, you might consider switching
after this or the other project that is ongoing. Where do you get the time to 
learn from ? 

Well anyway, in Delphi I found a tool that fullfills all my Windows programming needs.
Now it is even available in Linux. 

Fine for you when you're happy with VC++.
Should you have a question about Delphi and how to solve a particular problem, mail me
in private.

Rene
-- 
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com


Andrew J Jenkins wrote:
> 
> On 11:50 PM 8/7/2001 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar wrote:
> >There is no way to come up to speed on such a project in another language
> >than delphi. Why are the competitiors blown to pieces, not because they were
> >dummies, they used the wrong tools. The language must be efficient in development
> >the IDE, meaning RAD has to be efficient. No C++, no nothing except delphi.
> 
> Pardon me, and no offense, but Huh?
> 
> Delphi is by no means efficient, unless one is the programmer. Question is, is the 
>programmer or the customer the one who should enjoy efficiencies?
> 
> Delphi, on the other hand (or so I have heard) is easier to learn.
> 
> Now, on to the thrust of my response:
> 
> I have a temper. I admit that I have a temper. I can be an asshole. I admit (freely) 
>that I can be an asshole.  I am who I am, both good and bad. Some despise me, some 
>like me, some tolerate me, and others are simply amused. But I don't deny it. In 
>fact, though I attempt to slowly remove those bad traits, and though it is truly a 
>difficult process, and even though I may never be able to remove all traces of my 
>"bad" side, I never attempt to lie about who I am or what my faults are. I definitely 
>never say "I'm just a poor misunderstood nice-guy". What I do say to folks is this: 
>"I have a temper. However, my temper is rarely provoked unless one displays offensive 
>behavior first, whether it is by using subterfuge or deception to manipulate or by 
>saying things which are fallacious or otherwise simply don't add up. Much as I don't 
>enjoy the process of being an asshole, I will be, but it can most often be avoided 
>simply by not being one yourself"
> 
> To clarify the analogy, Delphi and its royal supporters (as opposed to normal 
>supporters) rarely if ever ADMIT Delphi's intrinsic faults, and therefore often 
>attempt to HIDE them and hide behind rote banners (generally, the rote banners are a 
>sign of the supporter's relationship to "nobility". This is a problem not because of 
>the intrinsic problems, but because of the subterfuge that accompanies those flaws 
>(Much like what is/was so often expeienced by PC users when encountering MAC 
>users...anywhere in the world... Hence, when confronted with serious core-level 
>flaws, the Delphi community hides behind the catch-phrase of the shareware community, 
>"it's a difficult job", one which no-one else enjoys.
> 
> Until the Delphi community (Specifically Protel programmers and those who protect 
>them with posts like the above) owns up to it's short-coming(s), the problems cannot 
>be properly addressed, and we'll continue to have these periodic cathartic and 
>divisive threads, endlessly and pointlessly avoiding the problems and their solutions 
>in favor of virtual-graphite wars. $5 for every piece of chewing gum.  As a Protel 
>user, is that what you want?
> (ex: panning prob. Instead of consolidating under one banner, we instead chose to 
>have a flame war for literally years, until one side finally won, and Protel attacked 
>and seems to have solved the problem but it took years, instead of months, IMO all 
>because of pride in Delphi amongst some of the user community)
> 
> I understand and appreciate the many of the benefits of the Visual-Pascal (Delphi) 
>model, but really...
> Are you suggesting that when discussing code efficiency, Protel (Delphi) can even be 
>compared to an application like AutoCad (C)...Or are you simply staying within 
>similar product lines, like Lotus Notes and MS Office???
> 
> regards,
> 
> aj

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