At 03:00 PM 5/1/2002 -0700, Mira wrote:
>Does anybody know how expensive Phoenix will be?
I'm not sure that Altium even knows for sure. But they have announced that
pricing will be "in line with" current pricing, i.e., $7995 for 99SE full
regular price. There are often sales and specials for multiple licenses, etc.
They are also indicating that upgrade from 99SE licenses older than a
certain date (1 October 2001?) will be $1995. Since that is also the
current upgrade price from Protel 98, they will have, if they keep to what
they have indicated, devalued P99SE licenses bought before the cutoff date.
This has not been past practice, except that really old licenses tended to
be the same upgrade price to be come current, i.e., the upgrade from
Autotrax to P98 was the same as the upgrade from version 2, and the upgrade
from version 3 or before is now $3995, twice that of what it is for P98.
There is normally a resale market for Protel licenses, but the pricing
uncertainties and structure have certainly thrown that market into
disarray; it becomes very difficult to determine the value of a license
much more than "today it is worth...."
> I have a PCB, which reports 5 polygons
>although I see only 4 on the PCB. One of them is
>"empty" and can't locate it.
>When I select all and try to move it, it says there
>are locked primitives and one of the polygons doesn't
>want to be moved.
>How to find out which primitives are locked? How to
>locate the "empty" polygon?
My, my, you *are* exercising the program, to run into so many Protel quirks
so quickly. Empty polygons are created when one sets the polygon to remove
dead copper, and there is no net seed within the polygon. So all poured
primitives are removed, and the polygon becomes a tad difficult to find.
It is possible to find polygons and their tracks using Edit/Export to
Spreadsheet, and to edit the "remove dead copper" parameter in the
Spreadsheet, updating the PCB. This is a bit of a tricky process; and
changing the attribute will not cause, I think, the polygon to repour. But
selecting all, cutting it, and pasting it back will cause Protel to query
whether or not you want to repour.
I think there is a better and easier way, but I forget what it is. This is
not exactly something should need to be done frequently....
> > Generally, however,
> > once one understands how to accomplish a thing in
> > Protel, it does make
> > sense, it is relatively easy to remember.
>Probably... after you remember all sets of buttons to
No, the point is that *most* important commands are fairly easy to
remember, and quick to use. I did *not* find this to be true with OrCAD
Layout, which was designed to force the user to do things the OrCAD Way,
which was *often* quite convoluted. There were plenty of things that I
could do in seconds in Tango which took me hours in Layout, mostly to
figure out how to do it, and when I did find the way, it was complex and
not fast, and it was, from my point of view at least, highly arbitrary.
Next day, when I needed to do the same thing, I could not remember it. If I
did not keep notes, it was back to research mode.... maybe it was faster to
find the info the second time around.
But not much. And, as I said, the process would often turn out to be much
more complex than what I expected. More specifics on this below.
>I met Orcad on a crossroad several times. PCAD was/is
>my love from the first sight.
Love is like that. However, had you met Protel first, I find it less likely
that you would have become so infatuated. Certainly, however, this is open
Many Protel users simply could not have afforded Accel PCAD; when what has
become the unified package was about $20K, Protel was selling on special
for about $4K. I got in for $2K because a friend had a spare Autotrax
license. Since Autotrax sold for less than $1K, as I recall, Protel was
really cheap for such a flexible and powerful system. I paid another $700
to upgrade to 99SE.
You couldn't even buy the severely limited Windows versions of Accel Tango
So I am not at all surprised to find that PCAD has features which are
lacking in Protel. It ought to!
[I wrote about Loop Removal.]
>This reminds me about one of the first versions of
>Orcad. I had several nets routed but there was no
>space for one more and I couldn't find a way to move
>the segments. I decided to delete it but for Orcad
>this meant "remove the net from the netlist". So, I
>had to load it again. The right way was to re-route it
>from the beginning to the end and then the old one was
>removed automatically. I hope this is not the case
Only if Loop Removal is enabled. The problem with OrCAD, as I recall, was
that it was either impossible or less than obvious how to turn off loop
removal. In Protel it is a selection field on the Preferences screen.
It was also quite difficult, I found, to guide the routing in Layout. The
cursor would float and the track would go to what OrCAD thought was what I
wanted. Occasionally it was right. Protel's routing tools are much more
intuitive and easy to drive. I don't think I am alone in thinking this....
As to PCAD, I don't know. I have a PCAD license but have never found the
time to get deeply enough into it to start routing a board. I took the
Accel PCAD seminar at PCD Conference West, soon after Protel acquired
Accel, and found it very hard to stay awake. "Here is the File Menu. You
can create a New file, Open a file, you can Save it, ...." I certainly hope
that the training has improved! When I realized that I was in danger of
truly falling asleep and probably starting to snore, I left and went back
to the Exhibits floor, where I had no problem staying awake, collecting
pens from Cadence and PADS and chatting up every Protel user that showed up.
Especially I promoted this list, which, as you now know, is the number one
most essential tool for the new user. Protel should more actively promote
the list, they would avoid muhc of the all too common frustration of users
like you who are expecting something ... different. Many of these users
give up with the demo, I understand....
I do understand that the Protel training, with Mr. Wilson, is quite good....
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* To leave this list visit:
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* Browse or Search previous postings:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *