Hi Robert,

no, i don't think this is dangerous at all, IF you just reload the 
netlist after the update it will flag any of the issues which worry you
here

also recall that during this process (sometimes it seems the 2 steps 
have to be iterated) you may get the 'false' DRC highlighting which has
been recently discussed here

if it looks fishy just reset the DRC errors (probably not nec. to reset, 
but feels good) run a real DRC (as opposed to the online DRC which 
runs after the netlist load) and it will be correct

in the cases where you say it is inconsistent it is bouncing between
duplicate pins which are perhaps not in the netlist
shouldn't be a big deal once you reload the netlist

don't forget to 'include unnamed single pin nets' during the netlist 
generation, this can be useful for some of the special cases you
describe

i use the update primitives ALL the time with no problems whatsoever if
you understand how it works

why do i use it all the time?
because we are constantly cannibalizing various part of older boards and
pasting them together with new schematics

also another technique which will do the update a bit less globally is
to select connected copper,
then CUT the whole thing and paste it back in the same spot
all of the bits of track will then acquire the same net

this last technique will not however assign the nets to your component
tracks, you have to run the update as you have described
this is a shortcoming of the software (that it does not handle component
tracks well - esp stringers on SMD pads)

one idea i had for the case of something like your switch pattern was to
use the UNION feature
unfortunately it does not work because you can only create a UNION of
components and cannot include primitives
that's too bad!
UNION would be way more useful in many ways if it could include
primitives

i don't know yet if DXP handles component tracks any better of if it
allows a UNION to hold primitives as members
i will post this question over there

Dennis Saputelli

"Robert M. Wolfe" wrote:
> 
> To All on this one,
> I have also been in this situation
> with a board I had to use the "update free primitive"
> to connected copper. IMHO this is a VERY VERY dangerous command unless you
> are ABSOLUTELY sure there is nothing touching any pads that it should
> not be. I have used fottprints of pads touching to
> tie A & D GND's etc together and if that has been done
> it will pick one of those nets and make that one net.
> NOT just the fact that trace touched this was clearly
> only pads touching but it made both ends one net.
> Also if there were footprint changes and traces
> just happen to be touching things that really don't
> want to be you are also in trouble. Yes DRC should
> flag all of these but IMHO this is a very dangerous
> and time consuming way to deal with this.
> I had to use this function because I did a board
> with contact patterns for switches I built into
> the footprint, and this is the only way Protel deals
> with making those tracks in the footprint become
> proper net. Again don't like it at all this way.
> It also seems to me that Protel is not
> consistant with respect to update, I have seen
> in some cases what is described in this thread,
> and also times where it actually updated the nets
> properly to new connections. Also it does not seem
> consistant with update footprints either, sometimes
> it does it and sometimes I have had to update
> them manually as I knew I changed one and it was not updated during PCB
> update with that option checked.
> Also on this board I did see that Online DRC did
> not actually update in real time, only after moving aound
> the board, and if I remember correctly, and maybe closing and going back in
> did I in fact see the green
> come up to inform me I had the shorts.
> I have not dealt with that phone board in awhile
> and my changes to boards has been pretty
> minimal so I have not seen this in awhile, but
> I would say Protels PCB update is a little
> flaky, and a word of caution be very careful
> with the "update free primitives" command!!!!
> Bob Wolfe
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Saputelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Revision problems
> 
> > i am on the same page as you about this
> > and yes almost all of our bds have polygon pours, so that is probably at
> > the root of the 'false DRCs'
> >
> > i always reload the netlist after a copper update, just a sanity check
> >
> > and now for a confession
> > i STILL don't use the synchronizer
> > i have been told i am missing something there and i don't doubt it
> >
> > i just never seem to have the time to learn anything and a lot of our
> > netlists are from orcad with all the wrong footprints
> >
> > Dennis Saputelli
> >
> > Brad Velander wrote:
> > >
> > > I get those "not really a DRC problem" highlighing all the time. Drives
> me
> > > nuts. I can change the size of a pad that is connected to a pour
> (legally)
> > > and the whole pour lights up as a DRC. I usually repour the polygon
> because
> > > it is faster than running the DRC and the highlight goes away. When I
> see
> > > it, it is usually on a polygon pour.
> > >
> > >         Yeah, I would expect that your check would work with the
> reloading
> > > of the netlist as well. I don't think that you mentioned the reload of
> the
> > > netlist in the first reply so he might have had a real jumble for a
> while.
> > > Using the connected copper with an update really frightens me sometimes
> > > because with the changes I may have a connection that is made to ground
> and
> > > then it renames almost of the GND net except for the component pads.
> This
> > > can take me a while to untangle sometimes because of our extensive use
> of
> > > polygons in our microwave boards. Then it take even longer before I feel
> > > really comvfortable about the integrity of the board again.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Brad Velander.
> > >
> > > Lead PCB Designer
> > > Norsat International Inc.
> > > Microwave Products
> > > Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
> > > Fax  (604) 292-9010
> > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://www.norsat.com
> > > Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000
> > > certification
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 5:31 PM
> > > > To: Protel EDA Forum
> > > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Revision problems
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > that's an interesting point, but i would think that if you learn the
> > > > nets (update copper), load the nets then the DRC should be accurate
> > > >
> > > > i have seen cases (although this is not apparently his issue)
> > > > where i go
> > > > through the update/load nets cycle and the board
> > > > inappropriately lights
> > > > up very green (lot's of DRC errors) as a result of the ONLINE DRC
> > > >
> > > > in this situation (assuming there are not really errors) then
> > > > if i reset
> > > > DRC errors and run the DRC, all is well
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Saputelli
> > > >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************************************
> > * Tracking #: C94731B44C3DBF43AAA06AE0FC33F911A0524CB0
> > *
> > ************************************************************************
> > --
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> > www.integratedcontrolsinc.com            Integrated Controls, Inc.
> >    tel: 415-647-0480                        2851 21st Street
> >       fax: 415-647-3003                        San Francisco, CA 94110
> >

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
www.integratedcontrolsinc.com            Integrated Controls, Inc.    
   tel: 415-647-0480                        2851 21st Street          
      fax: 415-647-3003                        San Francisco, CA 94110

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