Thanks Guys,
I see all of your points, I agree with you that
once you understand how it works
you can use it safely. (it can be a time issue if
you get out of wack)
I was trying to point out that if you are not
careful and like you said understand what
it will do it can take a bit of time to get things
back on track. A lesson I learned the hard
way on that early design when I was struggling.
I have also used it since but was surprised
recently (like I said earlier)
with the fact that it looked at pads
touching and changed nets, but now that I know
what to look for I can prepare better. It was only in one place on that
design so it was quick to fix.
It really comes down to the extra steps (time) to deal with these things,
other systems I've used did deal with this a bit more gracefully.
Sorry if a scared the original poster on this one.
Bob Wolfe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Saputelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Revision problems


> shouldn't you load the netlist AFTER the update?
> else stray tracks could pick up connectivity?
> i haven't found clearing nets necessary, although i do it sometime
>
> Dennis Saputelli
>
>
> "Michael Reagan (EDSI)" wrote:
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > Update free primitives is a very good command to use.  I use flawlessly
on
> > every design.  If you are getting drc errors when invoking the command
then
> > you must have traces shorted from one  pad to another.
> >
> > The exact process I use is different than most others recommended
practice,
> > here is what I do
> >
> > 1 clear all nets from the design
> > 2. load a new netlist
> > 3 update free primitives
> > 4 run drcs
> >
> > The reason I follow this procedure is because it can save hours of
Protel
> > crunching the netlist over and over again.   If the pcb still has drc
errors
> > then there is a problem in the pcb file.
> >
> > I have used this process for hundreds of designs, and hundreds of
thousands
> > connections.   It has never failed me
> >
> > Mike Reagan
> > EDSI
> > Frederick MD
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert M. Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Revision problems
> >
> > > To All on this one,
> > > I have also been in this situation
> > > with a board I had to use the "update free primitive"
> > > to connected copper. IMHO this is a VERY VERY dangerous command unless
you
> > > are ABSOLUTELY sure there is nothing touching any pads that it should
> > > not be. I have used fottprints of pads touching to
> > > tie A & D GND's etc together and if that has been done
> > > it will pick one of those nets and make that one net.
> > > NOT just the fact that trace touched this was clearly
> > > only pads touching but it made both ends one net.
> > > Also if there were footprint changes and traces
> > > just happen to be touching things that really don't
> > > want to be you are also in trouble. Yes DRC should
> > > flag all of these but IMHO this is a very dangerous
> > > and time consuming way to deal with this.
> > > I had to use this function because I did a board
> > > with contact patterns for switches I built into
> > > the footprint, and this is the only way Protel deals
> > > with making those tracks in the footprint become
> > > proper net. Again don't like it at all this way.
> > > It also seems to me that Protel is not
> > > consistant with respect to update, I have seen
> > > in some cases what is described in this thread,
> > > and also times where it actually updated the nets
> > > properly to new connections. Also it does not seem
> > > consistant with update footprints either, sometimes
> > > it does it and sometimes I have had to update
> > > them manually as I knew I changed one and it was not updated during
PCB
> > > update with that option checked.
> > > Also on this board I did see that Online DRC did
> > > not actually update in real time, only after moving aound
> > > the board, and if I remember correctly, and maybe closing and going
back
> > in
> > > did I in fact see the green
> > > come up to inform me I had the shorts.
> > > I have not dealt with that phone board in awhile
> > > and my changes to boards has been pretty
> > > minimal so I have not seen this in awhile, but
> > > I would say Protels PCB update is a little
> > > flaky, and a word of caution be very careful
> > > with the "update free primitives" command!!!!
> > > Bob Wolfe
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dennis Saputelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 9:25 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Revision problems
> > >
> > >
> > > > i am on the same page as you about this
> > > > and yes almost all of our bds have polygon pours, so that is
probably at
> > > > the root of the 'false DRCs'
> > > >
> > > > i always reload the netlist after a copper update, just a sanity
check
> > > >
> > > > and now for a confession
> > > > i STILL don't use the synchronizer
> > > > i have been told i am missing something there and i don't doubt it
> > > >
> > > > i just never seem to have the time to learn anything and a lot of
our
> > > > netlists are from orcad with all the wrong footprints
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Saputelli
> > > >
> > > > Brad Velander wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I get those "not really a DRC problem" highlighing all the time.
> > Drives
> > > me
> > > > > nuts. I can change the size of a pad that is connected to a pour
> > > (legally)
> > > > > and the whole pour lights up as a DRC. I usually repour the
polygon
> > > because
> > > > > it is faster than running the DRC and the highlight goes away.
When I
> > > see
> > > > > it, it is usually on a polygon pour.
> > > > >
> > > > >         Yeah, I would expect that your check would work with the
> > > reloading
> > > > > of the netlist as well. I don't think that you mentioned the
reload of
> > > the
> > > > > netlist in the first reply so he might have had a real jumble for
a
> > > while.
> > > > > Using the connected copper with an update really frightens me
> > sometimes
> > > > > because with the changes I may have a connection that is made to
> > ground
> > > and
> > > > > then it renames almost of the GND net except for the component
pads.
> > > This
> > > > > can take me a while to untangle sometimes because of our extensive
use
> > > of
> > > > > polygons in our microwave boards. Then it take even longer before
I
> > feel
> > > > > really comvfortable about the integrity of the board again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > Brad Velander.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lead PCB Designer
> > > > > Norsat International Inc.
> > > > > Microwave Products
> > > > > Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
> > > > > Fax  (604) 292-9010
> > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > http://www.norsat.com
> > > > > Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO
9001:2000
> > > > > certification
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 5:31 PM
> > > > > > To: Protel EDA Forum
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Revision problems
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > that's an interesting point, but i would think that if you learn
the
> > > > > > nets (update copper), load the nets then the DRC should be
accurate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i have seen cases (although this is not apparently his issue)
> > > > > > where i go
> > > > > > through the update/load nets cycle and the board
> > > > > > inappropriately lights
> > > > > > up very green (lot's of DRC errors) as a result of the ONLINE
DRC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > in this situation (assuming there are not really errors) then
> > > > > > if i reset
> > > > > > DRC errors and run the DRC, all is well
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dennis Saputelli
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
************************************************************************
> > > > * Tracking #: C94731B44C3DBF43AAA06AE0FC33F911A0524CB0
> > > > *
> > > >
************************************************************************
> > > > --
> > > >
> > >
> >
___________________________________________________________________________
> > > > www.integratedcontrolsinc.com            Integrated Controls, Inc.
> > > >    tel: 415-647-0480                        2851 21st Street
> > > >       fax: 415-647-3003                        San Francisco, CA
94110
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
> --
>
___________________________________________________________________________
> www.integratedcontrolsinc.com            Integrated Controls, Inc.
>    tel: 415-647-0480                        2851 21st Street
>       fax: 415-647-3003                        San Francisco, CA 94110
>
>


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