without starting a war. In the meantime it has already started.
war ? what war dude ? :-)
I really think my breakfast is more important than getting into a war thru the web, specially on a project I founded and which is supposed to be a source of pleasure for me.
environment i like, which people with whom it is fun to work with. The
fun of developing something i will use myself, the fun of learning new
interesting stuff while working on it. Now the fun part seems to have gone.
I agree on that point. Unfortunately, fun is dependent on what is the cool toy of the moment. For me.. the cool toy is Java. With all the respect I have for you guys on the project, since I founded the project, I decided to keep my original intention : having fun. Just like you. I cannot be blamed because I change some rules. Thats why I suggest to fork the project. This "streamline" of the project is the place, in first place, for my fun.
I haven't seen an official statement from Luciano that the Java switch
is definitively decided... but it looks a lot like it. I'm not a Java
guy... i'm mainly a C guy... but i like a lot C++ too. I don't like
IDEs... so for the moment i could not imagine myself developing Java
code using eclipse. But perhaps i would like it... who knows ? I just
don't want to be forced to use a specific IDE to do my work on a Open
Source Project. I love Freedom... as in speak. But this includes also
the freedom to choose my weapons, my editor to code.
What you talking about.. ? you can code in java using emacraps if you want.. **I** plan to use eclipse, but you just dont need it.. I never said that eclipse would be a requirement... did I ?
Also i can't see any justification in this switch. I'm not sure a wider
developer base will be found than now.
Me neither.. I talked about potential developers base... potential == not sure
And even if yes, it will take a
lot of time to get back to the point Protux is now.
yeah ! and that will be so fun to work on reaching that point..
This quest of productivity which Luciano seems to strive at is what i
try to avoid working on Protux. Of course i want a fully functional
Protux. But i already spend most of my time at work programing in order
to meet the deadlines. I want the programing which i do in my free time
to be fun. And usually i'm much more productive when i'm having fun than
when i'm forced to do something.
well.. essentially, we have the same thoughts. Nobody is guilty about one fact : in a last confrontation of priority on who has more "rights" to have fun on the project, I honest think I have the biggest priority. My motivations are a combination of rational perspectives of what java can do for the project and the fact that for me, coding in java is more fun, nowadays, than coding in C++/qt. I could give up on many "rational points".. but I cannot giveup on points regarding my original pleasure to create the project.
But these are not the main reasons why i'm sad about what happens now.
Kicking someone out of a project is no fun. Having an Open Source
project forking is no fun. We have already not many developers.
Separating them on two projects is not how we will speed up development.
Remon offended me. I will not expose him giving details, but I dont have any obbligation to keep in the project somebody which I invited, and then turned out to be somebody unpleasent for me in the project.
There was a time long ago i almost got Luciano angry when i mentioned
the possibility to have Protux running on other (proprietary) operating
systems like Solaris and Irix... These times seems far away... now
running Protux will force users to have proprietary code. I'm not
against proprietary things, sometimes they are necessary. But there
seems to be changes in the heart of the project.
Also i don't like software patents.
You mean the SUN Java VM ? yes.. it will be quite attached to it.. thats a very controversial point that I myself agrreed on Remon. My expectation is that in case of the SUN java VM become a non-free plataform, we make all necessary adjustments to make the project work upon a free VM. Until there, we take benefits on the SUN Vm.
There is just one quote about the last thread on the mailing list i want
to comment.
Luciano wrote:
| It is not too much to remember that the names Mustux, JMB, Protux are
| not allowed to be used in another forked project.
While i can understand that Luciano doesn't want the forked project to
be called something like Mustux or Protux (but i hope a mention of these
two projects is still allowed if not mandatory), i have difficulties to
accept it with JMB.
JMB is a UI concept, implemented by Mustux. Of course it has been
originally created for Mustux by Luciano and his team, but JMB is a
concept which can be used in many more places. Calling any other JMB
implementation (the UI concept, not the library) other than JMB will
just be more confusion and will serve neither the original nor the
forked project. This is like if in M$ Word you call an UI concept
"drag'n'drop" but in OpenOffice you are not allowed to use the same term
for the same UI concept/operation.
Why would a word processor not be able to be advertised as "implementing
Mustux' revolutionary JMB UI concept" ? Why would an Audio
Editor/Recorder not be allowed to do the same ? Just because
historically they had a common code base ?
I agree on that, and I add more : I created just one " extension" of a existing concept : "game-like" driven UI. Games have a very powerfull way to interact with humans. Application just ignored that. I just made the shortcut , and called it JMB. Of course, everybody can take benefit on this concept. Forget about what I said last email on JMB. I really mean the Mustux/Libmustx/Protux name, specially because using those names could cause a lot of confusion on users trying to choose the original tool or the forked one. Also, I personally dont required any mention to names in the new projects, but it is mandatory, ok.. no oposittion too.
<ironic>
And how long and Protux will be a proprietary commercial application and
the Protux holding will own the JMB patent ? I hope never but there
begins to be trends i don't like too much.
</ironic>
Since I hate ironics... no comments on that...
I'm still not decided about what my future participation will be as the
Java switch decision has not been officially announced yet.
And sorry i don't consider linking my participation on this decision as
unpolite. To spend a few month to integrate a new development
environment and then lot more time of porting everything is a lot of
work. In the same time a lot of more productive work and more useful
stuff could be done on the current version of Protux. I'm already
lacking time... so i rather use the little time i'm got to do something
more useful.
Everybody knew that Remon was the most active developer in the project last 2 years. when he said he would be leaving the project in case of a java migration, he could impose a very strong parameter for new potential developers decidng to take part on the project to help him. Even for me that could be a plus-factor . The elegant-way, in my opinion, is to make such a condition privately. At least, it would not "scare" people...
If the switch is decided i won't continue on Mustux/Protux. If the
switch doesn't happen but the project stays forked i don't know. I'll
see when i'll have time again to work on it again. But beside the
Java/C++ question Remon's ideas on
what to do on Protux and how to do it are usually much closer to my
ideas than Luciano's... so there is a bigger chance i'll switch off to
the forked Qt/C++ version. But as i said i'll see when i'll be able
again to do some work.
OK. It is your right to do so. Thats why I created the project under GPL. No regrets.
In the meantime i wish both projects a lot of success... i hope both
projects can end up as complementary projects rather than both projects
will starve due to lack of developer...
Time will tell.
I had lot of fun with all of you guys and i hope you won't take anything
i wrote here personal, it wouldn't have been my intention.
Ok , then I decided to change the toy, I decided to use a laser-gun instead of a paint-ball-gun.. so what ? I think that althought a " colaborative project" becomes something that many people take part into help, THEY TAKE PART INTO TO HELP. I know that I cannot make you guys love java as I love. I spent about 5 years to realize the potential of this technology. I made some effort to show you the benefits of it, but it seems that all you guys relays on #1, and no matter java becomes fast, and free, and wide-adopted, you will always prefer to type tons of commands to get a simple binary built. I dont stand more on this ways... I prefer to concentrate on audio logics. Not on middle ware. I could just tell you guys ' hey , I am the owner of the project, dont forget that huh ? .. so learn java, we will use it.. `. but no, I postponed more than one year a decision to review the protux project basic foundations, and recently, I tried to show you some of the things I noticed in this period of time.
When I suggest to fork the project, it is no just a GPL rational offer, of a altruist voice, I really think you deserv to have the same "rights of leadership" as I gained when I found the project and created the first ideas. I dont care if you guys dont like my way, but I like my way, thats what I believe it will be better for the project, and I have some reasonable professional background to know that I am on the right way.
Ok, thats it. gotta feed my dog ...
--
Luciano Domenico Giordana
Software Engineer / Java/C++ Senior Developer
IBM Brasil - Hortolândia - SP - +55 19 21327000 - R 5100
Project Protux : http://www.nongnu.org/protux
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