Thank you for the correction. I don't have a corpus of .spo or .spw files. (If anyone has a collection of either kind of file and is willing to give them to me, then I can make reading those formats a later project. I would keep them confidential.)
GPL graphics are similar, except for syntax, to the ViZML graphics that .spv files embed for graphs and models, so if I ever implement one of them then the other would probably not be much harder. But I don't currently have plans for either one. On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 01:00:45AM +0200, Michał Dubrawski wrote: > Thank you Ben, > > I remember the old output format from my first contact with SPSS as a > student - I found information that it was .spo file extension while .spw is > file extension for web reports: > https://stats.idre.ucla.edu/spss/seminars/introduction-to-spss-syntax-2/ > " SPSS output files have the file extension .spv. You can also save output > files with the .spw extension, which is for the SPSS Web Reports format. > Older SPSS output files may have the extension .spo. These files can be > read with the SPSS Smart Viewer, which can be downloaded for free from the > IBM SPSS website. Note that only .spo files that were created using a > Windows machine can be read with the SPSS Smart Viewer. " > > About graphics I meant GPL graphics: > https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLVMB_24.0.0/spss/base/syn_begin_gpl_overview.html > > "GPL blocks cannot be contained within DEFINE-!ENDDEFINE macro definitions" > > I don't really like that GPL command language, but I don't know if you ever > plan to have graphics like that in PSPP. > > > warm regards, > Michal > > 2018-07-26 19:35 GMT+02:00 Ben Pfaff <b...@cs.stanford.edu>: > > > There seem to be several SPSS output formats. > > > > First, there's something really old (?) with an .spw extension. I > > haven't looked at those at all and I don't have a corpus of them to > > learn from, so PSPP won't support .spw files until those change. > > > > Second, there are effectively two different subformats of .spv files. > > Both of them wrap XML and binary members inside a .zip file. In the > > older format, graphs and tables are both represented by ViZML XML. This > > is a fairly awful way to represent a table, so the newer format switches > > to a binary format for tables (SPSS calls this format "light"). There > > are different sub-versions for that binary format, too. Currently my > > reader understands the light table format (all versions I've run into) > > and I'm working on the older format. > > > > I haven't tried to make PSPP understand SPSS graphs. That's a lot more > > work. > > > > When this feature gets in, it's probably going to take several > > iterations of bug reports and fixes, because I'm implementing it by > > reading lots of .spv files and making sure that the reader supports > > them. Even though it successfully reads the thousands of .spv files > > I've collected, I imagine that there will be lots that it initially > > cannot. For those, I hope that users will send them to me so that I can > > add them to my corpus and fix the bugs. Other than those bugs, PSPP > > should be able to open any .spv file, regardless of what procedures they > > use. > > > > Which graphics commands can't be called from macros? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ben. > > > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 07:24:18PM +0200, Michał Dubrawski wrote: > > > Thank you Ben. I understand the context now. Good to hear that spv format > > > will help. By the way does it mean that unlike SPSS which if I remember > > > well cannot open spv created in older versions of SPSS, PSPP would be > > able > > > to open any spv? Would it be only able to read spv with output from > > > procedures that are also implemented in PSPP? > > > One more thing I really hate how they made graphics commends which could > > > not be called from macros - please don't go that way if you would like to > > > implement it in PSPP someday :) > > > > > > W dniu czwartek, 26 lipca 2018 Ben Pfaff <b...@cs.stanford.edu> > > napisał(a): > > > > > > > MULT RESPONSE might also benefit from the work I'm doing. I've looked > > > > at MULT RESPONSE before, and one of the things that kept me from > > > > implementing it is the output complexity. CROSSTABS also has very > > > > complex output routines, to the extent the complexity of the output > > > > comes close to overshadowing the complexity of the data analysis. MULT > > > > RESPONSE is worse. > > > > > > > > But most of the complexity comes from how PSPP internally has no > > > > systematic approach to displaying data as tables. (It does have decent > > > > support for rendering tables into different formats, but not for > > > > converting data into tables to be rendered.) The SPV format actually > > > > points a good way forward on this point, so when the appropriate amount > > > > of work is done, it should allow CROSSTABS to be nicer internally and > > > > then a reasonable MULT RESPONSE implementation too. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 09:56:17AM +0200, Michał Dubrawski wrote: > > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > > > > > > > it is great to hear that you are working with spv output. I know that > > > > they > > > > > were changing it from version to version so it seem like quite a > > > > challenge, > > > > > but based on what challenges you have faced before when making PSPP > > > > > compatible to SPSS I'm sure you will handle it :) > > > > > > > > > > CTABLES or Tables in the future will be very useful but I think that > > what > > > > > would be most important for students, social sicentists, > > psychologists, > > > > > market researchers or virtualy anyone who analyse any survey results > > > > would > > > > > be the possibility to display mrsets in one table, which could be > > done in > > > > > SPSS with MULT RESPONSE command. Without it PSPP wouldn't be an > > option > > > > to > > > > > display survey results because almost all surveys have multi response > > > > > questions. The only free alternative would be some packages in R > > which > > > > are > > > > > not as accessible (easy to use) as PSPP. > > > > > > > > > > Any way to display MRSETS in the PSPP output would be very valuable > > for a > > > > > lot of people even if it would be a cross tabs extension allowing the > > > > usage > > > > > of mrsets in it or something like that. When people graduate from > > > > > psychology, sociology, social science or pedagogics departments they > > have > > > > > knowledge how to build a surveys - there are a lot of tools that > > allow > > > > them > > > > > to collect data via online surveys, but when it comes to displaying > > the > > > > > results in tables for the reports they all have a software problem > > > > because > > > > > many non-profits and startups cannot afford SPSS + Custom Tables > > > > licenses, > > > > > and from my experience that is exactly the software they know how to > > use > > > > > because of their Universities. > > > > > > > > > > That said, thanks again to Ben and all the developers and all other > > > > people > > > > > involved with PSPP project - you have done tremendous work so far. > > > > > > > > > > Michał Dubrawski, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:48:33 -0700 > > > > > > From: Ben Pfaff <b...@cs.stanford.edu> > > > > > > To: Alan Mead <am...@alanmead.org> > > > > > > Cc: "pspp-users@gnu.org" <pspp-users@gnu.org> > > > > > > Subject: > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: PSPP CTABLES > > > > > > Message-ID: <20180725154833.gf18...@sigabrt.benpfaff.org> > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's likely that I'll change PSPP to use the same output > > model. > > > > > > One reason that it differed until now is simply that it wasn't > > clear to > > > > > > me how SPSS really modeled output. The documentation on it is > > pretty > > > > > > muddy. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've now got code that reads and understands most .spv files just > > fine. > > > > > > I'm still working on reading the oldest kind of .spv files, which > > use a > > > > > > really funny way to encode tables. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 10:32:11AM -0500, Alan Mead wrote: > > > > > > > FWIW, I'm excited that you're working on reading SPV format. I > > had > > > > > > > assumed that the implicit output model might preclude > > compatibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/24/2018 4:30 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote: > > > > > > > > There might be some small hope here because I've been spending > > a > > > > lot of > > > > > > > > time lately working to make PSPP understand SPSS's .spv output > > file > > > > > > > > format, so that it can read (and write?) it directly. > > Implicit in > > > > that > > > > > > > > format is an understanding of the SPSS output model, which > > seems > > > > to be > > > > > > > > entangled quite a bit with the CTABLES syntax. It might > > therefore > > > > lead > > > > > > > > someday to CTABLES implementation (but not soon). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 09:21:11PM +0000, Crichton, Ronald > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> I asked about this a few years ago. I gather it would be > > > > difficult. > > > > > > Mind you, I used TABLES in SPSS in about 1990 and got to quite > > like it > > > > and > > > > > > used it a lot. So, here we are in 2018 and I use CTABLES in SPSS, > > and > > > > can?t > > > > > > get the hang of it, at least not much more than the basic usage of > > it. > > > > > > Can?t stand it. I long for the old TABLES function. Not available > > in > > > > SPSS. > > > > > > So, here?s the thing: perhaps PSPP should develop its own version > > of > > > > TABLES > > > > > > with just the basics, without trying to emulate SPSS because they > > have > > > > > > stuffed up something that used to be quite good. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> From: Pspp-users [mailto:pspp-users-bounces+ronald.crichton= > > > > > > cit.edu...@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Jakub ?krob?nek > > > > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2018 6:29 PM > > > > > > > >> To: pspp-users@gnu.org > > > > > > > >> Subject: PSPP CTABLES > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Hi, I would like to ask if there is any progression in CTABLES > > > > > > implementation to PSPP. I read some threads (http://pspp-users.gnu > > . > > > > > > narkive.com/r32JwdwI/what-features-of-custom-tables- > > > > > > ctables-are-most-important) but they seems dead. Any suggestion? > > > > > > > >> Kind regards > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Jacob > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > >> This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also > > > > > > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify > > the > > > > sender > > > > > > and delete all copies of this transmission along with any > > attachments > > > > > > immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor > > > > disclose > > > > > > its contents to any other person. > > > > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> Pspp-users mailing list > > > > > > > >> Pspp-users@gnu.org > > > > > > > >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Pspp-users mailing list > > > > > > > > Pspp-users@gnu.org > > > > > > > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan D. Mead, Ph.D. > > > > > > > President, Talent Algorithms Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > science + technology = better workers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.alanmead.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "You're an interesting species. An interesting mix. > > > > > > > You're capable of such beautiful dreams, and such > > > > > > > horrible nightmares. You feel so lost, so cut off, > > > > > > > so alone, only you're not. See, in all our > > > > > > > searching, the only thing we've found that makes > > > > > > > the emptiness bearable, is each other." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Carl Sagan, Contact > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Pspp-users mailing list Pspp-users@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
