On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:06, Cameron Heavon-Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > Will get the browser matrix to you today or if held back then for tomorrow. > Sorry for the delay! > > cam
no problem at all. thanks in advance. > > > On 05/04/2011, at 2:56 PM, mike amundsen wrote: > >> cam: >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I see the usage scenario you have in mind for >> the "GET-style" DELETEs. >> >> Other comments make sense to me, too. >> >> Thanks. >> >> BTW - any chance you can send me the browser matrix for different >> response-types soon? >> >> mca >> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >> http://twitter.com@mamund >> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >> >> >> #RESTFest 2010 >> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 09:31, Cameron Heavon-Jones <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> On 05/04/2011, at 6:01 AM, mike amundsen wrote: >>> >>>> Cam: >>>> >>>> my comments are inline... >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 13:03, Cameron Heavon-Jones <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Feedback on: Supporting PUT and DELETE with HTML FORMS @ 2011-04-04 >>>>> >>>>> 1.2. Assumptions >>>>> >>>>> I think that DELETE requires the same support as PUT and POST. The >>>>> requirement for this was posted to public-html-comments: >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2011Apr/0020.html >>>>> >>>>> I would suggest that DELETE uses the same URI encoding rules as for GET >>>>> by default, with the option of also being allowed to be encoded in the >>>>> same enctypes as for PUT and POST. This will allow for a DELETE request >>>>> using query parameters to be constructed through a form or, for the other >>>>> enctypes, for the DELETE request to be embedded with configurable >>>>> attributes. >>>>> >>>>> For example, it would be great to be able to generate a DELETE request to >>>>> a uri like: >>>>> >>>>> <form action="http://example.org/user"” method=”delete” if-match="*"> >>>>> <input name="hat-size" type="text" value="" /> >>>>> <input type="submit" /> >>>>> </form> >>>>> >>>>> *** REQUEST >>>>> DELETE user?hat-size=small HTTP/1.1 >>>>> Host: www.example.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> While I am not personally convinced of this approach for deletes, I've >>>> added it to the document to make sure it's recorded for discussion. >>> >>> Great, thanks. >>> >>> To illustrate it's usefulness, i would frame the requirement in response to >>> a user's problem. >>> >>> What other mechanism would be available for a user to issue DELETE over a >>> collection of sub-resources? >>> >>> To continue with the example of users, if the base user resource is /user >>> and each individual user is located at /user/{id}, what mechanism is there >>> to issue a DELETE request covering a sub-set of users? >>> >>> If we can issue requests to GET a sub-set of sub-resources, and if that is >>> deemed to be a valid resource, then why can we not issue a DELETE over the >>> same resource? ie >>> >>> GET /user?hat-size=small >>> >>> DELETE /user?hat-size=small >>> >>> these are both valid resources and hence both valid requests. >>> >>> the problem is now whether it is possible for a user to initiate this >>> request for DELETE as they currently can for GET. >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4.4. Optional Added FORM Content-Types >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure there is need to add JSON to form entypes. As JSON is >>>>> javascript data format it could be expected that this be used only with >>>>> XHR. Maybe a use case for support would be if javascript were required >>>>> to manipulate data prior to the request being sent, but then couldn't JS >>>>> just create the JSON from the form itself? >>>> >>>> Understood. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4.5. Optional Support for Prefer Header >>>>> >>>>> I don't think this is necessary, if Accept header is adhered to. Without >>>>> knowing the full context the Prefer header was targeted at, I'm not sure >>>>> i understand the need for it, especially in this context. >>>> >>>> The Prefer I-D offers agents the ability to use settings such as >>>> "send-no-content", "send-status-only", etc. when making requests. I >>>> don't see a way to do this w/ Accept headers right now. >>>> >>>> Again, I think this "Prefer" header is interesting for HTML.FORMS, but >>>> not a pre-requisite for supporting PUT/DELETE. >>> >>> I think the Prefer header is interesting...though i am unconvinced that it >>> is necessary, or even useful for html. >>> >>> Automated agents would seem to gain the most from its inclusion, but then >>> html isn't really for them anyway. >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4.6. Support for Atom-Style PUT/DELETE >>>>> >>>>> I would be inclined to remove any default application of etags. If the >>>>> server has full access to etags (and full understanding), why can it not >>>>> just apply to the form as or if required? >>>> >>>> Understood. I, too, am not convinced of this option. However, GET >>>> makes regular use of ETags already. >>>> >>> >>> OK. No problems. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Cam >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> cam >>>>> >>>>> On 04/04/2011, at 5:41 AM, mike amundsen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> All: >>>>>> >>>>>> I've updated/reformatted the PUT/DELETE with HTML FORMS document[1] >>>>>> with the following: >>>>>> - Added "integrate w/ existing servers..." to the Goals section. >>>>>> - Added "Binary Transfers" to the Scenarios section. >>>>>> - Added Julian Reschke's query regarding exsting browsers handling >>>>>> 201/202/204 response to the Handling Responses section. >>>>>> - Added "Optional Added FORM Content Types", "Optional Support for >>>>>> Prefer Header", and "Support for Atom-Style PUT/DELETE" to the "Other >>>>>> Considerations" section. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think this reflects the key feedback from the last couple days. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've not had time to doing any research/testing on Julian's query >>>>>> regarding current browsers' handling of 201/202/204 responses. I >>>>>> figure browser folks can chime in here, eh? >>>>>> >>>>>> NOTE: I've cross-posted this to: >>>>>> - ietf-http-wg >>>>>> - public-html >>>>>> - public-html-comments >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is overkill, let me know. >>>>>> >>>>>> [1]http://amundsen.com/examples/put-delete-forms/ >>>>>> >>>>>> mca >>>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >>>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund >>>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> #RESTFest 2010 >>>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 17:48, mike amundsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> I've posted a document[1] that shows one way in which HTML FORMS can >>>>>>> support PUT/DELETE w/o the need for plug-ins or scripting. It's a >>>>>>> quick draft but I think it covers the basics. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this is not in the desired format let me know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] http://amundsen.com/examples/put-delete-forms/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mca >>>>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >>>>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund >>>>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> #RESTFest 2010 >>>>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 14:26, mike amundsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> <snip> >>>>>>>>> Personally I'd like to see a concrete proposal how PUT and DELETE >>>>>>>>> will work >>>>>>>>> (examples with HTML and HTTP interaction). Right now it's totally not >>>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>> to me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And *where* shod this activity happen? >>>>>>>>>> - here >>>>>>>> </snip> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Makes sense to me; I'll work up a few examples of HTTP/HTML this >>>>>>>> evening and post a link. If/when others do the same we can use them >>>>>>>> all as references in any discussion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mca >>>>>>>> http://amundsen.com/blog/ >>>>>>>> http://twitter.com@mamund >>>>>>>> http://mamund.com/foaf.rdf#me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> #RESTFest 2010 >>>>>>>> http://rest-fest.googlecode.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 14:14, Julian Reschke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 01.04.2011 15:41, mike amundsen wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I see the bug has been re-opened. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I see there has been some discussion on public-html-comments >>>>>>>>>> regarding >>>>>>>>>> PUT/DELETE[1]. >>>>>>>>>> I also note at least one suggestion in that thread was to discuss >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> on the whatwg list[2]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What is the preferred way to proceed here? >>>>>>>>>> - List concerns/reservations and deal with them as they come up? >>>>>>>>>> - Draw up a straw man proposal (is there a standard format for this)? >>>>>>>>>> - Some other process? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Personally I'd like to see a concrete proposal how PUT and DELETE >>>>>>>>> will work >>>>>>>>> (examples with HTML and HTTP interaction). Right now it's totally not >>>>>>>>> clear >>>>>>>>> to me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And *where* shod this activity happen? >>>>>>>>>> - here >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here should be fine. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, Julian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> > >
