Juan Sequeda wrote:
Hugh and all,
On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Hugh Glaser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Clearly the answer was no, as I have had no other responses.
I say yes, but most probably if it did exist right now, it wouldn't be
used.
I am still worried (as I guess Aldo is) that we do not have a
support forum for plain users.
I wonder why?
(That is where they will feel welcome, able to ask damn fool
questions, and nurtured.)
These are the people who actually might care nothing for our
wonderful technologies, but simply want to use our amazing Linked
Data, and that we need to bring into a community.
It may be that the wiki could help, but it doesn't at the moment.
To push the point more:
We are now doing tutorials on "How to Publish Linked Data...",
which is great.
But we need to also do "How to Use Linked Data..." to people who
know nothing, and don't really want to know much.
EXACTLY!!!!! This is the whole chicken and egg problem.
I ask myself every day... who is going to use linked data? And lets
get all the LODers and SemWebers out of the picture. Now lets ask
ourselves again, who is going to use this data? Who is this data for?
Or furthermore, what is LOD? This is where we have to start! I think
that this community needs to start putting themselves in the shoes of
the "web2.0" developers! We need to start some kind of outreach and
education pipeline. Personally, I have started this with the community
of developers in Austin. In conjunction with the Cyc Foundation, we
founded Semantic Web Austin [1], as a way to teach/expose Semantic Web
technologies. We are planning to do WebOfData Workshops, bring keynote
speakers, and just get the community excited about LOD, what it is,
and HOW to USE it! Furthermore, this is one of the main motivations of
SQUIN [2], so a simple web developer can use LOD without any
complications. The transition needs to be nice and simple.
Another thing that I ask myself is who is going to start LODizing new
data. The outreach and education part should encourge companies who
are exposing their data through API's to start doing it as Linked Data
too! But they never will if they don't even know what LOD is. An
interesting case is Jinni.com, a "semantic web" application. I
contacted the CEO, and to my surprise, they don't use any semantic web
technologies and don't even know what LOD is! The application and data
is awesome, and they just released an API. I envision a future when
companies release their API's and their Linked Data too!
[1] www.semanticwebaustin.org <http://www.semanticwebaustin.org>
[1] http://squin.sourceforge.net/
And then they need to know they can get support from somewhere.
Once they know what LOD is, and how they can start using it, this list
will be useful!
If anyone has any suggestions or can point me at something I have
missed that would be great.
My two cents! Would love to here comments!
Juan,
Let's go through some simple QA.
You play the "User" and I (and hopefully others will provide answers)
will provide answers.
Mission: simple articulation of the value prop. of Linked Data.
Warning: Cognitive Dissonance is the viper in the sand re. this quest.
Kingsley
Best
Hugh
On 28/11/2008 16:39, "Aldo Bucchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Hi Hugh,
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Hugh Glaser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> Thanks Aldo,
> Very clear.
> I agree; what is the forum for users to ask some questions
without getting
> dragged into the developer world?
Not sure if it exists at this point.
There is some intent behind the LOD wiki and very good material there,
but the lines are a bit blurry ( only a bit ).
> We could point them at the wiki, and the developing material on
how to do
> things, but they still need to be able to ask questions.
> Ravinder asked a sensible question of the sort that should get a
> well-serviced response; he got some of that (eg I said "here are
some SPARQL
> endpoints, have fun!"), but we then moved back into developer
mode and had a
> discussion among ourselves. This is not the first time this has
happened, I
> think.
Exactly!
That was the case I was trying to make.
Very well synthesized.
> And I suspect that quite a few existing list members are feeling
the content
> is too detailed.
> It is very exciting that we should have got to the stage where
we have this
> problem!
Aha!
And that's why I think it is sensible to act now, this is only going
to grow as a problem.
> You suggest lod-dev and lod-users
> Checking the W3 lists it seems they don't really have a standard
way of
> splitting things. Similar situations:
> eg
> public-owl-comments - This is the public feedback mailing list
> public-owl-dev
> public-owl-wg - Technical discussion of the OWL Working Group.
> Or
> www-amaya - discussion about general issues of Amaya
> www-amaya-dev - Technical discussion about Amaya.
> www-amaya-developers
> www-amaya-doc - Discussion among contributors
>
> I am not in favour of having many lists, nor changing names.
>
> So I think it would be a good idea to create a new list
"public-lod-dev",
> and use public-lod for our users (should it be used for
announcements as
> well?).
In the end, the only difference is that there should be some place
where people are simply served with practical answers and those who
know the technicalities keep them to themselves ( and have other
spaces to channel those debates ), unless prompted to delve deeper.
We have agreed on what LOD is, right?
There is a huge amount of LOD out there, right?
There are tools to use it, right?
If that's what we are saying out to the world, then questions like
Ravinder's should have a very simple answer as you say.
And should reassure him in his interest, not plant a 6 meter wall in
front of him.
> I guess that is a formal proposal, if the protocol allows me to
do so.
> Any takers?
Heh. Me.
>
> How do we decide?
> I guess we wouldn't want to flood the list with yes/no/maybe.
> Someone can put out a simple message and then gather votes?
> I would be happy to, or does someone else want to?
> Feel free to email me privately with "yes please", "I'll do it"
or "no
> don't".
> Sorry if I am out of order here, but let's get to a conclusion
with minimum
> fuss.
Yeah, I don't know how to proceed either.
This is just another debate where we are pointing out an important
issue.
There are others with more authority and insider knowledge that could
provide some guidance.
I would suggest calling the aforementioned case, the "R" case, in
allusion to the name of the user who asked the question.
So far, the R-Case is yet another example that has served to reveal a
flaw in the suitability of this list to receive the new markets we are
targeting with our outreach efforts ( markets will try to stand a bit
to the right of the value chain and don't really care what's going on
on the other side ).
( and if mr ravinder does care, then lets just create a fictional
character. he served the purpose well ;).
Best,
A
>
> Best
> Hugh
>
> On 27/11/2008 21:54, "Aldo Bucchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hugh,
>>
>> Oh I am not saying you are against this, like anyone else in this
>> group you are evidently pushing this forward.
>> This is just a debate excercise right?
>>
>> Not trying to second guess your intentions.
>>
>> Please all I tried to point out is exactly that.
>>
>> We are using this list to debate in public.
>>
>> Do we want to debate in public?
>> If we do, perfect.
>> But beware that we are bouncing people off because, gee, take a
look
>> at the level of the discussions!
>>
>> People just want to know what this big cloud of data is, what
they can
>> get out of it, how to use it, etc.
>>
>> Or else we will fall back again into the SW obscure alley.
>>
>> I am risking getting bullied in the list for pointing this out,
but I
>> think it is worth it.
>>
>> We are making some progress here in terms of world PR.
>>
>> Best,
>> A
>> --
>> Aldo Bucchi
>> U N I V R Z
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>> Mobile:+56 9 7623 8653
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>> http://www.univrz.com/
>> http://aldobucchi.com
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>
--
Aldo Bucchi
U N I V R Z
Office: +56 2 795 4532
Mobile:+56 9 7623 8653
skype:aldo.bucchi
http://www.univrz.com/
http://aldobucchi.com
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communication, by e-mail or otherwise. Instead, please notify us
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