Yann, Giovanni,
Which side effects are probable ?
Giovanni has made the same comment on data.europeana.eu a couple of weeks ago.
The data we serve there is different from the RDFa mark-up on our web portal.
We had some reasons to do this, including, well, that the RDFa data is mixing
the info and non-info resources for making easier data consumption (not
mandatorily by search engines, btw), and working with URIs that pre-date our
linked data service.
The RDFa and the RDF obtained with LD-style conneg is also not about the same
URIs, which should avoid any confusion.
But I can understand that if Sindice tries to fetch both data sources, it may
assume the data to be the same. And this assumption could bring a number of
undesirable side effects if Sindice merges all what it gets...
That being said, perhaps the solution lies in Sindice being less greedy ;-) and
just work with the first data source it finds, for a given URI.
I do like the idea of having several (simple) channels for data publication
over the web, which serve different goals.
Maybe we need to better articulate the practices and expectations, though...
Cheers,
Antoine
Hi Giovanni,
Le 09/07/2011 23:10, Giovanni Tummarello a écrit :
Hi Nicolas,
Its getting in Sindice indeed -
Yes, I have noticed :)
quite politely e.g. 1 every 5 secs-
we'll monitor speed and completeness. iff you think its ok for us to
crawl faster please say so via robot.txt directive or just say so
May I suggest that you crawl twice faster ?
http://sindice.com/search?q=book&nq=&fq=domain%3Awww.sudoc.fr&sortbydate=1&interface=advanced
at the same time i notice something funny in the markup e.g. if you go
with a browser you get redirected to something that has almost no data
for example the sitemap contains
http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043
if you go there you get redirected to
http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043
which if you put in the inspector
http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.abes.fr%2FDB%3D2.1%2FSRCH%3FIKT%3D12%26TRM%3D000000043#TRIPLES
you get very little data
however of course if i use the inspector on
http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043 i get data
http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000000043&content=&contentType=auto#TRIPLES
which however is mostly schema.org data!
but in sindice i have lots of RDF data with all sort of other ontologies
http://sindice.com/search/page?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000385123
is there any way you could try to normalize all into a single markup
type? i think it would be easier to debug and ultimately better for
all..
I will try to explain our intention, our constraints and the mechanism we've
implemented.
- Intention -
We want to meet several needs :
. providing RDF/XML to semantic-oriented clients like Sindice
. providing HTML + schema.org microdata to traditional search engines like
Google
. providing an HTML UI to users
- Constraints -
. For some reasons, we can't add microdata to our traditional Sudoc UI. Hence
the necessity of special HTML+microdata pages for search engines. :(
. HTML+microdata pages and RDF pages can't support the same vocabularies,
schema.org /oblige/.
- Mechanisms -
Let's start from : http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520
. If RDF/XML is called by the request, we provide RDF/XML content (as if you
had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.rdf)
It is what Sindice Crawler is doing and getting : the 55,764 documents that are
found in your index are composed of triples extracted from this RDF/XML page.
It is what we expected. Fine :)
. If our Apache server considers a user agent to be a robot and if this agent
does not ask for RDF/XML, we provide special HTML content (as if you had
requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.html)
It seems to work as Google cache contains this kind of HTML + schema.org
microdata pages :
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sudoc.fr/000000043
. In other cases, we redirect to our traditional and non semantic UI :
http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043
. NB : we have planned to add this <link> in this HTML page : <link rel="alternate" type="application/rdf+xml"
href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043.rdf"/> and <link rel="canonical" href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043"/>
to alleviate the URL confusion.
- - - - -
. It is not simple, but it seems to work, ie Google, Sindice and users seem to
get what they should.
. Is there a better way to obtain the same results ?
. Which side effects are probable ?
Thanks for your help and your attention !
Yann
looking forward to support
Giovanni
Gio
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Kingsley Idehen<[email protected]> wrote:
On 7/8/11 8:31 AM, Yann NICOLAS wrote:
Le 08/07/2011 01:42, Kingsley Idehen a écrit :
On 7/7/11 10:17 PM, Yann NICOLAS wrote:
Bonjour,
Sudoc [1], the French academic union catalogue maintained by ABES [2], has
just been released as linked open data.
10 million bibliographic records are now available as RDF/XML.
Examples for the Sudoc record whose internal id is 132133520 :
. Resource URI :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520/id
. Generic document :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520 (content negotiation is
supported)
Great job!
Is there an RDF dump anywhere?
Sorry, we don't provide any dump, as the 10 000 000 files are generated on
the fly from Oracle (stored as XML type+ some more tables).
We provide a complete sitemap at
http://www.sudoc.fr/noticesbiblio/sitemap.txt , and we hope that Sindice
will crawl the whole stuff.
Would it help ?
Any advice welcome,
Yann
--
--
Yann NICOLAS
Etudes& Projets
ABES
Okay, no problem with sitemaps as dump alternatives re. getting data
imported into Linked Data hubs such our LOD cloud cache and Sindice etc..
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
President& CEO
OpenLink Software
Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
--
--
Yann NICOLAS
Etudes& Projets
ABES
