On 17 April 2012 16:43, Martin Hepp <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your feedback. However,
>
>> PageRank does transfer along the edges of the web graph, so a highly ranked 
>> homepage would transfer it's PageRank to the pages leading from it.
>
> Do you mean that if http://wayfair.com/ can pass along its pagerank to all of 
> its 2,000,000 sub-pages *in parallel*?
>
> I had understood from the algorithm (e.g. [1]) that
>
> "The PageRank transferred from a given page to the targets of its outbound 
> links upon the next iteration *is divided equally among all outbound links.*"
>
> which means that a shop main page with a pagerank of say 1 would only 
> transfer a fraction of this, i.e.
>
> 1 / 2,000,000 = 0.0000005
>
> to each of the "deep" links.

This would only be the case if http://wayfair.com/ contained 2 000 000
outbound links.


> So the typical scenario will be as shown in the attached illustration, which 
> PR of close to zero for deep links.

It's worth bearing in mind that:

* the PageRank scale is not linear

* There are nodes with inbound links on wayfair.com other than the homepage

* Other sub-pages will propagate their own PageRank


> This would also explain my earlier observation from [2].
>
> You can also see from a brief look at the entity types found in the stats 
> that they find prominently those that also make sense on the main and 
> category pages.
>
> The Data Web does not happen on the landing pages and their nearest 
> neighbors, so the CommonCrawl corpus in its current form is useless for 
> making any statements about the data exposed on the Web.
>
>
> Best
>
> Martin
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank
> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2012Mar/0095.html
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Peter Mika wrote:
>
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> By incorporating PageRank into the decision of what pages to crawl, 
>> CommonCrawl is actually trying to approximate what search engine crawlers 
>> are doing. In general, search engines would collect pages that would be more 
>> likely to rank higher in search results, and PageRank is an important 
>> component of that.
>>
>> PageRank does transfer along the edges of the web graph, so a highly ranked 
>> homepage would transfer it's PageRank to the pages leading from it.
>>
>> My only complaints about CommonCrawl in this regard is that they don't 
>> publish their webgraph and the computed scores. It's a valuable resource to 
>> have. Further, they should compute it regularly... it seems they have two 
>> dumps with two years apart, and if they used the PageRank scores from the 
>> first dump to crawl the second, that might be a bit off.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/17/12 3:25 PM, Martin Hepp wrote:
>>> Dear Chris, all,
>>>
>>> while reading the paper [1] I think I found a possible explanation why 
>>> WebDataCommons.org does not fulfill the high expectations regarding the 
>>> completeness and coverage.
>>>
>>> It seems that CommonCrawl filters pages by Pagerank in order to determine 
>>> the feasible subset of URIs for the crawl. While this may be okay for a 
>>> generic Web crawl, for linguistics purposes, or for training 
>>> machine-learning components, it is a dead end if you want to extract 
>>> structured data, since the interesting markup typically resides in the 
>>> *deep links* of dynamic Web applications, e.g. the product item pages in 
>>> shops, the individual event pages in ticket systems, etc.
>>>
>>> Those pages often have a very low Pagerank, even when they are part of very 
>>> prestigious Web sites with a high Pagerank for the main landing page.
>>>
>>> Example:
>>>
>>> 1. Main page:        http://www.wayfair.com/
>>> -->  Pagerank 5 of 10
>>>
>>> 2. Category page:    http://www.wayfair.com/Lighting-C77859.html
>>> -->  Pagerank 3 of 10
>>>
>>> 3. Item page:        
>>> http://www.wayfair.com/Golden-Lighting-Cerchi-Flush-Mount-in-Chrome-1030-FM-CH-GNL1849.html
>>> -->  Pagerank of 0 / 10
>>>
>>> Now, the RDFa on this site is in the 2 Million item pages only. Filtering 
>>> out the deep link in the original crawl means you are removing the HTML 
>>> that contains the actual data.
>>>
>>> In your paper [1], you kind of downplay that limitation by saying that this 
>>> approach yielded "snapshots of the popular part of the web.". I think 
>>> "popular" is very misleading in here because the Pagerank does not work 
>>> very well for the "deep" Web, because those pages are typically lacking 
>>> external links almost completely, and due to their huge number per site, 
>>> they earn only a minimal Pagerank from their main site, which provides the 
>>> link or links.
>>>
>>> So, once again, I think your approach is NOT suitable for yielding a corpus 
>>> of usable data at Web scale, and the statistics you derive are likely very 
>>> much skewed, because you look only at landing pages and popular overview 
>>> pages of sites, while the real data is in HTML pages not contained in the 
>>> basic crawl.
>>>
>>> Please interprete your findings in the light of these limitations. I am 
>>> saying this so strongly because I already saw many tweets cherishing the 
>>> paper as "now we have the definitive statistics on structured data on the 
>>> Web".
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> Note: For estimating the Pagerank in this example, I used the 
>>> online-service [2], which may provide only an approximation.
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://events.linkeddata.org/ldow2012/papers/ldow2012-inv-paper-2.pdf
>>>
>>> [2] http://www.prchecker.info/check_page_rank.php
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> martin hepp
>>> e-business&  web science research group
>>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>>
>>> e-mail:  [email protected]
>>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>> skype:   mfhepp
>>> twitter: mfhepp
>>>
>>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>> =================================================================
>>> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  [email protected]
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>         http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
> * Project Main Page: http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
>
>
>



-- 
Leon R A Derczynski
NLP Research Group

Department of Computer Science
University of Sheffield
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